DBA 4000 Series rotors (1 Viewer)

[Glenn-BJ74]

My front brake rotors are fried ('warped') and I need a front brake upgrade before I head south to Moab next April and for the 2011 wheeling season. I am looking for better heat tolerance, since my problem seems to be overheated front brakes from the long mountain descents into the Fraser canyon and the descents around Moab and Canyon Lands. Often I get insufficient engine braking due to the wide 3rd to 4th gearing gap on the H55 transmission.

I looked into the 4 Runner calliper and master cylinder upgrade for the BJ74, but found mixed reviews (e.g. Gary Telford). It looks like the leverage gained from the larger 4 Runner callipers (results in more pedal travel), is taken away by the larger master cylinder that is part of the recommended conversion. Although, the larger 4 Runner pads would be better at dissipating heat, slotted rotors are also good at shedding the hot gasses underneath the brake pads.

So after some research I ordered a set of DBA 4000 slotted rotors (made in Australia) and PBR ceramic brake pads and stainless steel brake lines. I looked at Brembo rotors, but they do not offer a slotted rotor to fit the 60/70 axle. The ceramic pads are extremely heat tolerant and produce little dust, but are reported to wear the rotors a little faster than on the OEM set-up. The stainless steel wrapped brake lines are better at resisting flexing under hard braking – the 20-year rubber ones on there now are due for replacement. The reports are the slots on the rotors do not pack up with mud, but I will keep an eye on that.

I have a bunch of other stuff to do before I get to the brakes, but I will file a report after Moab if this was a worthwhile upgrade to the marginal brakes on these rigs.

Merry Christmas

 

[Granite Grinder]

I've learned to pick a gear and stick with it, especially pulling a trailer. I always joke, I go just as slow downhill as up, most times I'm in second (or first) going down hill, I never touch the brakes, as painful as that is. Make sure to post up your results.

 

[Fantom]

I'm surprised that you 70 series guys are having so many issues, the 60 is heavier and my brakes are fine. I'm using Raybestos regular rotors and PBRs Off-road pads, which actually work really well even when wet or caked in mud.
The other alternative for you if this doesn't work is an exhaust brake, you've already got on board air so it wouldn't take much to install one. Saves on your braking and prolongs the life of the brakes as well. Have a look around, might be able to get one at a good price.

 

[bj70_guy]

I'm surprised that you 70 series guys are having so many issues, the 60 is heavier and my brakes are fine.

I think Glenn's standards are a little higher than some of us. Ok, higher than mine anyway

Still, a little more brake couldn't hurt... be interested to hear how this works out.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I don't think I would have chosen ceramic pads, I tried those in my HJ61 for a few weeks and then tossed them in the bin and went back to Metallics. The PBR 4WD metallics are probably the best ones out there, or perhaps Hawk if they exist of this model.

I am about to embark on a brake upgrade for the HJ61 - but I have a hard time finding time. It an upgrade is to be made, it needs to be substantial.


~John

 

[prado t]

Problems 70 series None
Problems 60 series None

 

[Enigma]

Interesting notion about the exhaust brakes, that would be nice for the weak brakes on the 80 series (the diesel models anyways) on long descents, especially with an auto tranny.

I have no clue as to what's involved for that though.

 

[crawlin cruiser]

yer 74 an auto or stick?

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

I don't think I would have chosen ceramic pads, I tried those in my HJ61 for a few weeks and then tossed them in the bin and went back to Metallics. The PBR 4WD metallics are probably the best ones out there, or perhaps Hawk if they exist of this model.

I am about to embark on a brake upgrade for the HJ61 - but I have a hard time finding time. It an upgrade is to be made, it needs to be substantial.


~John

What was wrong with the PBR ceramics? They are very heat resistant. A good test is going down a very long downgrade with a loaded truck ( e.g. 6,000 lbs.) after they are properly installed. I think many guys are disappointed with brake upgrades, simply because they do not know they should bed in the new rotors and pads after they are installed.

 

[neoworm]

I'm running DBA drilled and slotted rotors in my 100 series with the stock pads. Braking is phenomenal and it's a VERY heavy truck. Especially when loaded. I haven't had any overheating issues with this setup so far. I think you'll be happy with them.

 

[Fantom]

Interesting notion about the exhaust brakes, that would be nice for the weak brakes on the 80 series (the diesel models anyways) on long descents, especially with an auto tranny.

I have no clue as to what's involved for that though.

a slight hijack, you need an exhaust brake, it gets installed after the manifold (or turbo) to limit the flow of exhaust and build up rear pressure to slow the engine down. Most of them run off an air actuated cylinder that engages the valve in the exhaust brake housing (closing off some or most of the exhaust opening) and achieving the build up of back pressure that slows the engine down. This is normally activated by a switch, or series of switches connected to the brake pedal, or other triggers that tell it to engage when needed. That said it involves on board air to run it. I know there have been some units with an electric unit but since they are not very popular I'm guessing they did not work as well.
This is of course different than the Jake Brake which actually is mounted inside the cylinder head and replaces the normal valve operation by opening certain valves to release pressure and slow the momentum of the engine. As far as I know no such beasts are available for our engines.
Every person who I know that has an exhaust brake swears by it and get about 300%+ more life out of their brakes, especially when hauling a trailer.
there are no negative effects from it as the pressure build up is not in any way greater then what the engine is used to. The other benefit of running with an exhaust brake on a turbo engine is that the turbo decrease the normal engine braking ability (I've noticed this after installing my turbo), this way you get that and more back.

sorry for the hijack Glenn.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Ceramics were developed to reduce one of the main complaints from brakes: noisy operation. They also reduce the amount of corrosion of wheels as the dust is less and also less damaging.

As far as good braking goes, I think that metallic pads win. What you really want is a pad with a very high metal content combined with a really good quality rotor.

As far as exhaust brakes go, they are available and are a great option - especially if you spend a lot of time on long descents with a heavy load or a trailer.

I'm working on a brake upgrade, and perhaps I'll have enough time over the break to see if it can be done. Heat is the main enemy with the rotors found on the 40, 60 & 70 series - they are fine in diameter, but are want for more metal and more cooling.

The next mod would be a rear disc brake option. I have a few ideas for that which are better than slapping on some GM rotors and calipers... but I need to find the time to play with it all.


~John

 

[canucksafari]

I've never used slotted or drilled rotors but I know many Trollers in Australia have tried them. I'd say about half loved them and the other half hated them, complaining that mud and pebbles gets caught in the slots. But if you are having problems with too much rotor heat, they are worth a try. Funny thing that often people see the biggest change in their braking after they flush the brake fluid with new.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

Another advantage (besides weight reduction) of open slotted alloy wheels is you can see the rotors.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Another advantage (besides weight reduction) of open slotted alloy wheels is you can see the rotors.

The slots will save at least a few grams.

Weight in rotors is what you want - big, heavy, thick rotors with lots of fins between them.

More weight = more heat absorption so they take longer to get hot.

More fins = better heat shedding and more rotor weight (Chinese and other off shore rotors have up to 1/3 less fins - yes, I counted them).

I think a lot of people see a big improvement when they move up to larger calipers because they have also fixed the other problems at the same time, and they can't really nail down the improvement to any one thing. I think that most of the improvement people see is simply from installing new rotors that are higher quality. When I upgraded my calipers, I already had new rotors installed and I do not think that the calipers really made any substantial difference at all.


~John

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I just got a set of DBA 4000's for my 80, they look great. I have used lots of rotors over the years but these look the best out of the box. Very good finish machining, interesting design of cooling fins, thermal paint and well placed not over done grooves.

Looking forward to getting them on with some 100 series pads.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

I agree. High quality rotors and pads are much better than going to larger calipers alone - so that is the way I am going.

The weight reduction I was referring to above was alloy versus steel wheels, and in my case saved 9 lbs per wheel.

The attached DBA tech bulletin tells how to bed in their new rotors and pads (street refers to non-racing applications).

 

[cruiser_guy]

In all this talk about brakes. Mini trucks have non-vented rotors, 'Cruisers have vented rotors. Is there a benefit to swap the non-vented mini-truck rotors and calipers, done previously for a disc swap, with the vented 'Cruiser rotors and calipers?

 

[Radd Cruisers]

In all this talk about brakes. Mini trucks have non-vented rotors, 'Cruisers have vented rotors. Is there a benefit to swap the non-vented mini-truck rotors and calipers, done previously for a disc swap, with the vented 'Cruiser rotors and calipers?

Yes, it's a big difference if you do heavy braking or have larger tires. Get Mountain or Brembo rotors.

You need the cruiser calipers as well, but you seem to know that.


~John

 

[cruiser_guy]

Yes, it's a big difference if you do heavy braking or have larger tires. Get Mountain or Brembo rotors.

You need the cruiser calipers as well, but you seem to know that.


~John

OK, I did a disc swap with mini-truck stuff on the LV ('cause that's what I had on hand). I have not driven the LV yet but have since come on a '60 series axle so I'll swap the parts over.