Dan Neil Landcruiser HE review, WSJ (1 Viewer)

[loop737]

Anyone check this out? He doesn’t seem to be a fan, ha ha.

 

[JohnPW]

Yes. He’s actually much less negative about the LC in this review than he was in a LC review a few years ago. I love his car reviews as they can be really funny, he’s a good writer. But his reviews are there for entertainment versus a serious assessment of a vehicle.

 

[tacoduck]

the 2020 reviews feel like they are all the same. "its old" and "bad gas mileage" are the overarching themes.

 

[JohnPW]

Favorite quote from the article: “the Land Cruiser proves it is possible to engineer a hugely capable luxury SUV/armored car that will last forever, if engineers first forsake any notion of reducing vehicle weight or improving mileage/emissions.”

 

[loop737]

Yes. He’s actually much less negative about the LC in this review than he was in a LC review a few years ago. I love his car reviews as they can be really funny, he’s a good writer. But his reviews are there for entertainment versus a serious assessment of a vehicle.

I totally agree, that one was brutal. Maybe that little trip with the fam made him realize what this thing brings to the table, although he’d never admit it. I enjoy reading the guy, the way he relentlessly flogs the green agenda gets old though.

 

[yorkin]

Favorite quote from the article: “the Land Cruiser proves it is possible to engineer a hugely capable luxury SUV/armored car that will last forever, if engineers first forsake any notion of reducing vehicle weight or improving mileage/emissions.”

I actually really liked the review and especially this quote. It nicely sums up why I decided to buy LC200 after many years of owning Land Rovers. Mileage is significantly improved in my case by diesel engine that has at least 30% lower consumption than petrol.

 

[DecreedIt]

I actually really liked the review and especially this quote. It nicely sums up why I decided to buy LC200 after many years of owning Land Rovers. Mileage is significantly improved in my case by diesel engine that has at least 30% lower consumption than petrol.

Man I would just about KILL for the diesel in the USA. Perfect engine for these heavy beasts. Shame we don't get it, but, what else is new.

 

[yorkin]

Man I would just about KILL for the diesel in the USA. Perfect engine for these heavy beasts. Shame we don't get it, but, what else is new.

The torque is indeed brilliant, great for towing (even if legally you can tow max 3500 kg with LC200 in EU)! My fuel consumption is 21mpg on highway, which is absolutely acceptable considering the weight and aerodynamics (or better said lack of aerodynamics ).

 

[SWUtah]

You mean my 9.8 miles per gallon is it considered good gas mileage???

 

[TeCKis300]

Man I would just about KILL for the diesel in the USA. Perfect engine for these heavy beasts. Shame we don't get it, but, what else is new.

Sure, efficiency goes up. It's not all roses.

With a diesel
- Payload is reduced on account of the heavier motor eating into GVWR. Also potentially reducing the tow rating.
- HP goes way down, 100+hp, which will make for tepid performance on the highway, particularly in passing and hill-climbs. HP climbs grades, not toque
- USDM versions would be saddled with DEF and additional emissions equipment, which reduces power and efficiency, and has been terrible for reliability in other diesels models
- It may not actually have much wheel torque advantage as that can be made up for with gearing

 

[yorkin]

Sure, efficiency goes up. It's not all roses.

With a diesel
- Payload is reduced on account of the heavier motor eating into GVWR. Also potentially reducing the tow rating.
- HP goes way down, 100+hp, which will make for tepid performance on the highway, particularly in passing and hill-climbs. HP climbs grades, not toque
- USDM versions would be saddled with DEF and additional emissions equipment, which reduces power and efficiency, and has been terrible for reliability in other diesels models
- It may not actually have much wheel torque advantage as that can be made up for with gearing

I don´t really have direct comparsion (petrol LC200 are rare as hens´ teeth around here) but with diesel V8 I can easily cruise all day at 170 kmph hills or flat. And it gets there pretty easily. That is all I need (and much more than is legal on our highways ).

 

[loop737]

Sure, efficiency goes up. It's not all roses.

With a diesel
- Payload is reduced on account of the heavier motor eating into GVWR. Also potentially reducing the tow rating.
- HP goes way down, 100+hp, which will make for tepid performance on the highway, particularly in passing and hill-climbs. HP climbs grades, not toque
- USDM versions would be saddled with DEF and additional emissions equipment, which reduces power and efficiency, and has been terrible for reliability in other diesels models
- It may not actually have much wheel torque advantage as that can be made up for with gearing

And your third bullet point nicely summarizes why Toyota denies us diesels, onerous emissions regulation. And it's gonna get worse, pretty soon we'll all be driving vehicles that are about as exciting as sewing machines. Toyota makes the best diesels on the planet, and I don't think there's much debate that they are the best engines for these rigs (see yorkin's comment about petrol 200 rarity). Lastly, if the diesel torque advantage can be made up for by gearing, why isn't that done at the factory? Just curious.

 

[TeCKis300]

And your third bullet point nicely summarizes why Toyota denies us diesels, onerous emissions regulation. And it's gonna get worse, pretty soon we'll all be driving vehicles that are about as exciting as sewing machines. Toyota makes the best diesels on the planet, and I don't think there's much debate that they are the best engines for these rigs (see yorkin's comment about petrol 200 rarity). Lastly, if the diesel torque advantage can be made up for by gearing, why isn't that done at the factory? Just curious.

Agreed and it's unfortunate as diesel efficiency and energy content certainly has a place. Especially as the US further waters down gasoline with ethanol, ugh!

In regards to diesels torque advantage, yes a diesel torque curve can have drivability advantages particularly at higher loads. But peak output may not be one of them, especially when compared to high output gasoline motors that is the 5.7L. Toyota does give the later USDM 200-series a gearing advantages in the form of an 8-speed tranny. I believe most of the rest of world, and the diesel powered cruisers, to still use the 6-speed.

Overall gearing in first gear between the 6-speed and 8-speed is 13.03 to 15.86 respectively. Assuming peak torque of the petrol 5.7L and diesel 4.5L to be 401 lbft and 650 Nm (479 lbft) respectively.

Some quick math gives us max wheel torque in 1st gear to be:
5.7L gasser w/ 8speed: 401 * 15.86 = 6,360 lbft
4.5L diesel: w/ 6speed: 479 * 13.03 = 6,241 lbft

For comparison, 5.7L with 6-speed: 401*13.03 = 5,225 lbft. Diesel will have a strong advantage off the line in comparison to this. Once things get going however, the gasser will catchup and start running away with its over 100+hp advantage. Then the diesel will win the race with superior range when the gasser needs to stop for fuel first. Thank goodness for aux tanks.

 

[DecreedIt]

Sure, efficiency goes up. It's not all roses.

With a diesel
- Payload is reduced on account of the heavier motor eating into GVWR. Also potentially reducing the tow rating.
- HP goes way down, 100+hp, which will make for tepid performance on the highway, particularly in passing and hill-climbs. HP climbs grades, not toque
- USDM versions would be saddled with DEF and additional emissions equipment, which reduces power and efficiency, and has been terrible for reliability in other diesels models
- It may not actually have much wheel torque advantage as that can be made up for with gearing

Old quote from automotive press: "Americans buy horsepower but drive torque".

I'm talking about a proper diesel sold elsewhere in the world - other posters picked up on this. I'd gladly trade top end HP for additional gobs and gobs of torque. We drove a GL350 (Mercedes) diesel for a couple years - fantastic. Way, way better than the gassers. Don't even get me started on my beloved Jetta TDI sportwagens. 80 MPH fully laden with gear, toybox, surfboards, bikes, in 90 degree weather to the beach (A/C crunk) - 45 MPG. Was it a 'cheater'? Pfffft whatever. Stupid garbage.

I almost bought a Duraburb before we found a good deal on the GL350. Would take diesel all day every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[TeCKis300]

Old quote from automotive press: "Americans buy horsepower but drive torque".

I'm talking about a proper diesel sold elsewhere in the world - other posters picked up on this. I'd gladly trade top end HP for additional gobs and gobs of torque. We drove a GL350 (Mercedes) diesel for a couple years - fantastic. Way, way better than the gassers. Don't even get me started on my beloved Jetta TDI sportwagens. 80 MPH fully laden with gear, toybox, surfboards, bikes, in 90 degree weather to the beach (A/C crunk) - 45 MPG. Was it a 'cheater'? Pfffft whatever. Stupid garbage.

I almost bought a Duraburb before we found a good deal on the GL350. Would take diesel all day every day and twice on Sunday.

I remember that quote well. Was it Bob Lutz?

I can't disagree and it's an important point. Style of driving matters. Many people shy away from driving horsepower as it requires lots of rpm - along with perceived engine stress and possibly driver stress from the increased NVH. Diesels need RPM and a downshift too to make HP, but their rpm bandwidth is relatively lower. Oddly enough, it's the diesel that has much higher internal stresses with high combustion pressures, which is why the block needs to be built significantly heavier.

The diesel would feel great day to day. For those that need the HP and know how to drive HP, 280ish HP out of the 4.5L just isn't enough for faster American highways. Towing 15k worth of rig, I don't hesitate to use the 5.7L fully as its such a smooth mill even at high rpm. Reality is, HP is HP, regardless of the type of powerplant, and 280hp would put me at <40mph on significant grades or unable to pass.

 

[DecreedIt]

I remember that quote well. Was it Bob Lutz?

I can't disagree and it's an important point. Style of driving matters. Many people shy away from driving horsepower as it requires lots of rpm - along with perceived engine stress and possibly driver stress from the increased NVH. Diesels need RPM and a downshift too to make HP, but their rpm bandwidth is relatively lower. Oddly enough, it's the diesel that has much higher internal stresses with high combustion pressures, which is why the block needs to be built significantly heavier.

The diesel would feel great day to day. For those that need the HP and know how to drive HP, 280ish HP out of the 4.5L just isn't enough for faster American highways. Towing 15k worth of rig, I'm don't hesitate to use the 5.7L fully as its such a smooth mill even at high rpm. Reality is, HP is HP, regardless of the type of powerplant, and 280hp would put me at <40mph on significant grades or unable to pass.

Might have been Bob Lutz - good call.

I hear you - I do - but let me offer this. Imagine a similarly spec'd diesel in the 200 platform. I'm just saying 700+ ft/lb of torque - you're not going to have a problem towing over a grade - I just don't get or buy that.

Duramax V8 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LML (Chevrolet Silverado HD, GMC Sierra HD)

2011–2016

397 bhp (296 kW) @ 3000 rpm

765 lb⋅ft (1,037 N⋅m) @ 1600 rpm

3450 rpm

That redline tho

 

[slowride]

 

[loop737]

Old quote from automotive press: "Americans buy horsepower but drive torque".

I'm talking about a proper diesel sold elsewhere in the world - other posters picked up on this. I'd gladly trade top end HP for additional gobs and gobs of torque. We drove a GL350 (Mercedes) diesel for a couple years - fantastic. Way, way better than the gassers. Don't even get me started on my beloved Jetta TDI sportwagens. 80 MPH fully laden with gear, toybox, surfboards, bikes, in 90 degree weather to the beach (A/C crunk) - 45 MPG. Was it a 'cheater'? Pfffft whatever. Stupid garbage.

I almost bought a Duraburb before we found a good deal on the GL350. Would take diesel all day every day and twice on Sunday.

Allow me to digress from the 200 discussion for a moment, you are so right regarding the VW TDI, we had a 2014 Passat with that engine and a six speed manual. 50 mpg plus on the highway. My wife once drove that thing from Salt Lake to LA and had 1/4 tank leftover (not kidding) plus it was fun as hell. However, California decided that sort of thing shouldn’t be allowed on American roads. Just bought this for my Daughter 2014 TDI 25k miles

 

[mcgaskins]

Don't even get me started on my beloved Jetta TDI sportwagens. 80 MPH fully laden with gear, toybox, surfboards, bikes, in 90 degree weather to the beach (A/C crunk) - 45 MPG. Was it a 'cheater'? Pfffft whatever. Stupid garbage.

I always thought the Jetta TDI wagon was a pretty cool vehicle, until I learned it was emitting significantly more NOx than semi trucks in many circumstances. I'd suggest checking out "Faster, Higher, Farther" if you haven't already to learn more about the true details of the VW scandal and the culture which allowed it to occur. It is difficult to overestimate the damage caused from the systemic and intentional cheating they undertook, and there are still ongoing trials to sort out culpability. It is definitely a huge deal and likely the biggest scandal ever in the automotive industry.

But on the plus side, it ironically helped launch EVs into the mainstream as a result of the settlement which required VW to invest $2B+ in building EV charging infrastructure (Electrify America - Wikipedia). For people who like torque, reliability, efficiency, and low maintenance, EVs are the clear future, so in a way Dieselgate was a boon to the industry.

 

[stonepa]

And your third bullet point nicely summarizes why Toyota denies us diesels, onerous emissions regulation. And it's gonna get worse, pretty soon we'll all be driving vehicles that are about as exciting as sewing machines. Toyota makes the best diesels on the planet, and I don't think there's much debate that they are the best engines for these rigs (see yorkin's comment about petrol 200 rarity). Lastly, if the diesel torque advantage can be made up for by gearing, why isn't that done at the factory? Just curious.

Ive driven the V8 diesel LC. I wouldnt trade my gas motor for that slug unless unleaded fuel prices triple and diesel prices halve. The gas 5.7 is that much better in my eyes.