Clutch smell because of water (1 Viewer)

[vrlndr]

Hi all

(Used the search, nothing found.)

2018 HZJ79 with 55000 km. 4.2 liter dinosaur diesel with manual transmission.

I drove a dirt road with lots of water pools about as deep as a tire sidewall. I didn't go very fast but there was definitely spraying of the undercarriage.

Almost immediately, I got clutch smell. It fills up the cabin. Next morning after camping, clutch smell still in the cabin. No smoke. I didn't ride the clutch pedal. No difficult driving. No clutch slippage that i could detect. I always baby my clutch. So the water lubricates the clutch and makes it slip? The problem it's the first time this happens and I had my cars on wet roads with pools countless times. Even this same car saw lots of water pools, mud and fording as I drove through 15 African countries without any clutch smell.

As of now, there's not much clutch smell but the slightest puddle will make it come back.

I just can't explain it. What damage leads to water hypersensitivity of the clutch? What has changed?

Thanks in advance for all insights.

 

[Houser]

Might be brake smell. A dragging brake will stink quite a bit. Look for discoloration on your rear brake rotors.

 

[vrlndr]

Is clutch and brake smell distinguishable?

Brakes would make more sense than clutch. Especially the rear brakes on this car are drums that surely could fill up with mud and get stuck. But I could detect neither heat nor smell from the wheels.

I saw that the alternator belts are quite loose. Could slip. But the smell is not rubbery. The belts don't smell either if I rub them with fingers. Intend to tighten or replace the belts and see if there's a difference.

 

[Squash]

Diff oil? Check the hubs.

 

[vrlndr]

Tightened the alternator belts, no change.

Clutch is still the main suspect. Air in the hydraulics, and oily disk to be excluded next. I increased pedal free play between the pedal level and the master cylinder as a test.

Need a week or two to find out more. Slower progress when on the road.

Diff oil? While I'm not sure if I can distinguish brake and clutch smell, diff oil smell is very characteristic and can be excluded.

 

[Houser]

Im still leaning towards the brakes steaming and making the smell. This is assuming you are not clutching while driving through the rough spots. On my unlifted lj78 the water would have to be up to the floor boards before the clutch would start getting wet. You may have dropped a brake lining on one of your rear brakes. Or your brakes are just carrying a lot of brake dust and dirt. It gets hot a steams when you go through some water. I am thinking the rear brakes because if you had a front brake dragging you would feel it in your steering. A dragging front brake would pull and vibrate.

 

[vrlndr]

Today I checked the front brake pads. No rust and no seizure to speak of. I cleaned and lubricated the pins and sliding surfaces.

Definitely there was no rough clutch usage. Today I just cruised through a bunch of puddles in second gear.

(I'm old and 12 of my 13 cars were manual, 4 of them Toyota 4x4. I baby the drivetrain including the clutch. I don't baby the suspension, within reason, to get decent average speed.)

Looks like I'll take off the drums as well and have a look because accessing the clutch is so much harder. Thing is, I stuck my fingers on the drums through the wheel spokes a bunch of times and there's just no heat.

 

[JuanJ]

Hello,

Your brake cylinders might be failing.

Faulty cylinders can make brake shoes stick and drag. This causes a smell that is very similar to a clutch smell.

Sometimes, stick and drag are continuous. Sometimes it is intermittent.

Water crossings may have affected your brake cylinders.





Juan

 

[Whoosh]

Just a hunch: a week or so ago in my garage, the mechanic discovered that the handbrake was totally stuck on one wheel (totally unnoticable). The brake drum was in places starting to discolour to blue. It turned out that the lever on de drum got stuck, and with some penetrating oil and endless moving (crowbar) it is now quite well again, thank you.
Anyway, since you have the same drum brakes, they might be suffering from the same ailment. And then, just a tiny amount of mud would lead to the brake liner running against the shoe constantly. I would advise to check this immediately, to avoid having to replace a brake drum!

 

[vrlndr]

Thanks for all the ideas so far!

Today I managed to crack one of the drums around one threaded hole by tightening the M8 bolts for pulling it too hard. Not a huge crack but it's obviously not ideal. I didn't get that drum off yet. I'll be more gentle on the other side and I'll have to decide whether to replace the cracked drum or not.

And then I had new circumstances occurring and I'll have to park the car for several months and fly somewhere else.

My apologies for interrupting the process in the middle.

On my other HZJ79 that has rear disks there were indeed hand brake problems mostly due to rust and less so due to mud.

 

[vrlndr]

I got both drums off. There was both loose and hardpack mud and I removed as much as I could without disassembly. The right rear shoe has abrasion at the bottom. This area could be the cause of the issue. Also nothing seized, handbrake action seems ok.

Now the weather got dry and warm and I don't have access to puddles anymore. Without water, it takes about an hour of driving for the smell to occur. So it might be a while until I can report the result of this mud removal.

TLDR: Postponed my flight for this and some other errands. Reason the drum didn't come off first is I didn't remove the stubby Phillips screw. I thought it was a rubber plug that my other car has for adjusting the parking brake. My excuse is the screw was covered in mud. I'm a certified idiot but don't spread the word. To crack these M8 holes doesn't take much. Short ratchet and three fingers is enough so be careful. About seized cylinders, the only thing I could test is wiggle the brake shoes left and right at the top. They wiggle in unison without much effort but I don't think that's proof of good cylinders. Anyway, one thing at a time.

 

[VannCruiser]

Probably swamp burning on the exhaust