Clutch Encounters of a Close Kind

[FJnotCJ]

I may have mentioned a while ago that I tried to put something together for a change, and it was enjoyable, so I did it over and over...now I have pictures!

Anyway, I tried to crack the FJ25 clutch code by stuffing 75 pounds of used clutch crap into a 50 pound bellhousing, it just didn't fit right enough for me. The throwout bearing was forcing the fork against the trans input shaft cover bolts, and closer inspection showed the bolts had grooves on their heads and the fork was also worn. This interference would have led to the throwout bearing constatly spining...Maybe the combination I was using was bad to begin with, POs improvised too.

So I took what I thought was a 25 clutch assembly, a 40 assembly, and a flywheel into the Missoula "Clutch Masters", and was happy when the guy looks at the pile and sez "Toyota, huh?" I explained about the shorter 25 bellhousing and the need for a compact 40 clutch, and he did the most amazing thing: he listened. Then he got compatible pressure plate, a low profile 11"disc, shimed this and modified that, surfaced the flywheel, assembled the whole thing while I went Christmas shopping. He tested it while I watched, the arms are just parallel with the flywheel, maybe a hair overcenter towards the flywheel, and he says he can move them in further if required

 

[FJnotCJ]

Install was smooth, plenty of room for the throwout bearing, maybe 3/8", which will decrease as the disc wears...

He saved his "recipie" on his computer, said he could adjust it if required after it was run, told him I'd be back in a year or so! New pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, surface flywheel, 2 hour service...$180

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Nice! Although my Chevy Disc and resurfaced pressure plate and flywheel works fine......I still get a little shudder sometime. Could even be a soft motor mount.

What pressure plate did you use? I "think" the difference between the 40 and 25 seemed to be the levers. The 40 being taller. I hope your guy accepts mail order, we seem to be short on this kind of shop around here.

 

[FJnotCJ]

If I am comparing (what might be) a 25 cover to a 40, yes, the arms are different, and the rolled down edge of the inner cicle of the cover, the edge the arms rest on when the cover is "relaxed" (if ya follow) is a bit deeper than the 40 cover......that said, the new cover would be 40 or Cheb, the guy was more interested in the "counterweighted fingers", I shall find out

The disc is a true 11" (Not Toy 10 3/4), the cool thing is how thin all the spring gizmos are around the hub compared to a stock disc....that is what would allow the arms to go further foreward if required....he also took some "marcel" out of the disc (those thin metal pieces between the two friction surfaces) to "firm it up a bit"...perfect for a teenager

I did ask for part numbers, he said they were all proprietary, no NAPA cross or anything, though he did mention there was a huge store in CA somewhere...

This is just a start, it's going to be awhile before it is tested, but if anybody wants (or needs) to give it a go I can work it from here...I just can't help but think if Missoula has one clutch guy there must be a godzillion of 'em everywhere else...

Next time the trans is out of the Firebird (and it won't be too long after it is out from paint the way the Cruiser Chick drives this guy is going to build a proper clutch to Lynda's taste (Hard) that can stand up to teenagers....

 

[Living in the Past]

So Phil what does the stock 25 disk look like next to a stock 40 disk. I thought if need be you can have your old pressure plate resurfaced and new springs install. I'm sure I had that done at a shop here in Phoenix but that was a long time ago and with my memory who knows. I just thought if the disks are the same it might be a way to go. I think it's funny you thinking a teenager would drive something this primitive. I taught all my kids how to drive on forest services roads with a H42 four speed. I just couldn't see them driving with the 25's four speed. If I had I would have needed the stronger clutch plus something stronger to drink.


John

 

[FJnotCJ]

So Phil what does the stock 25 disk look like next to a stock 40 disk. I thought if need be you can have your old pressure plate resurfaced and new springs install.

To be honest I am not sure what a stock 25 clutch assy looks like, I have to assume all of the stuff I have is some prior owners makeshift solution in the face of unobtanium (like I am doing now). What I have now (if it works) is a repeatable recipie using common parts I can use on two or three rigs, and other owners can use the info if they are in a bind....the 25 disc was probably 10 3/4" or 11" with the Cheby splines, the 40 and 60 discs I've seen are more rounded toy splines and 10 3/4"...from what I gather the Cheb splines will "fit" on the Toy, but not Toy onto Cheb...Now that I have a loose possible 25 pressure plate I will play with it a bit, options are good

I think it's funny you thinking a teenager would drive something this primitive. I taught all my kids how to drive on forest services roads with a H42 four speed. I just couldn't see them driving with the 25's four speed. If I had I would have needed the stronger clutch plus something stronger to drink.


John

The teen has driven the 60 on FS roads, she has no idea what awaits, but I can't tell her a thing if you know what I mean...it's a ragtop and she's going to drive it to CA and back....one reason to stock up on tranny parts

 

[FJnotCJ]

I talked with the clutch guy again, he used a pre-75 Toyota pressure plate he happened to have in stock and worked it from there, he says any clutch shop should be able to do it with theirs or yours....he said he liked doing the "old school" stuff and showed me the new, self adjusting types that are out now (but you can't rebuild them), said only about 10% of his work is rebuilding now....

www.clutchmasters.com race stuff and custom mostly, they show a late model clutch or something for the 67-74 years for close to $300, don't know about that...

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Here's the only pressure plate picture I could find. I'm sure all my discs were Chevy, they all had rubbers instead of springs in the hub.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

I thought rubbers where stock on Cruiser clutches and not springs? Toyota clutch discs are the only place I've seen rubber pucks... But I've been wrong before and likely again.

Nick

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I don't know Nick, the three speed disk was stock with springs, the four speed I think had rubbers.......but I have seen plenty of cheap Chevy disks with rubbers.

 

[Living in the Past]

All I know this is really getting confusing. I'm hoping with all of mine still have the original four speeds still in them that I wasn't going to have to worry about this. Never thought much about how the input shaft was shorter along with the bell housing. Didn't even think how this would effect the clutch assembly. My two driver's clutches seem to be in good shape. Maybe they will out last me hopefully .

When I picked up the four speed out of the junk yard a while back they had what I thought was a three speed bell housing with it. Now that I know the bolt pattern is different I check it again. It is a FJ25 bell housing. Is there any value to this? I think the SM420 bolt pattern is the same as the three speed otherwise this would be great for theat conversion, no special pilot bearing. Jim what bell housing did you use on project krusty?


John

 

[zebrabeefj40]

the four speed I think had rubbers.......

...and I've worked on mostly 4-sp Cruisers of the newer vintage. I think I've seen all of one or two F motor deep dish flywheels. Guess I'll go back to the peanut gallery.

Nick

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

All I know this is really getting confusing.

I used the three speed bellhousing with the SM420. As far as I know the FJ25 bellhousing only mates to the FJ25 four speed.......but, I think Phil has looked at the old Chevy truck tranny (pre SM420) and maybe the 25 tranny is close to that. So how's that for making things more confusing?

So if you're thinking of using a vintage 30's Chevy tranny, you might want to pick up that bellhousing.

 

[foxfab]

Gots me a relined clutch disk and a rebuilt pressure plate, alignment tool and pilot bearing for $185 from a local clutch shop. For future reference, they re-line shoes too

I still need to bring the throwout bearing in to have it matched up for a new one.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

Toss that plastic tool and grab an input shaft from a junk trans. The input shaft works MUCH better...

Nick

 

[LandCruiserSteve]

Nice job and nice price, Mike.

Did they say what they get for re-lining shoes and what the turn-around time would be??

 

[foxfab]

There is no such thing as a junk FJ25 transmission I know, I know, any Cruiser input would work

no, but I can ask on the shoes.

 

[foxfab]

There is no such thing as a junk FJ25 transmission I know, I know, any Cruiser input would work

no, but I can ask on the shoes. Turn around on the clutch was 2 weeks.

 

[FJnotCJ]

So Mike, you ever bolt the disc and pressure plate to the (resurfaced) flywheel to see how far the fingers stick up (or aft as bolted to the engine)?

 

[foxfab]

not yet. I dont have an engine to bolt it to yet