Car Audio

[Living in the Past]

Doing a search the only threads I could find were about upgrading system. I really going back. Just bought a 99 4Runner that came with a aftermarket Pioneer single DIN radio/CD player. Just to confusing to figure out and remote did nothing. In the back it had a 1000 watt amp with a 800 watt Boss extreme woofer in a box.

Can't tell from the Toyota's build sheet if it had a CD player but had premium cassette/radio with six speakers.

I disconnected the rear amp and removed the woofer and amp. I next installed a 2001 Tundra head unit and amp. Luck they installed the adapter plugs and it was all plug and play. With the simple unit installed I was able to adjust the fader and find only the tweeters in front worked. Pulled the door panel that the OEM speakers were replaced with Boss extreme 200 watt two way speakers. So poorly install neither worked. Some rewiring and they now work.

Here are my questions. Looking on line I see the factory the speakers were only rated for 30 watts. The bass response is better in the back speakers. Is this because the heavier voice coil and stiffer cone to handle 200 watts doesn't work well with the lower watt factory amp? Not hard to find original speaker and would be easy enough to switch back to factory speakers. My thought it's better to match the wattage between the amp and speakers. Higher wattage speaker work but not as well as speaker matched to the amp.

Second question. I won't mind enhancing the bass in the vehicle. What I had in there would have shared the bass with the whole neighborhood. Doing a little research I see it's not hard to make a adapter to plug in between the factory wiring and amp. While some of the PO install was pretty shoddy The power from the battery to the back was done right, Looks like amp also came with the two RCA plugs for input and separate control wire to turn it on and off with the head unit. The 1000 watt amp is a two channel in and out. Unless I missed something they had two inputs but the woofer was only wired to one channel. So what would be a good wattage for sub woofer and factory premium sound system from 2001? On a woofer I seen them with leads for both channels. Is this bad or better to find a sub woofer amp that handles this?

 

[gr8ful]

Follow the wiring for your front speakers. Based on the setup you mention, I'm willing to be money that you have crossovers wired into them to remove all of the deep end base from the front speakers. They will either be a couple of little units that are wired inline, or even potentially as simple as just a couple of capacitors wired into the positive line. They basically remove all of the low end signal & prevent your speakers from getting a lot of bass distortion. Great if you have a large system with subs. But they eliminate a ton of deep end sound if you take the subs out. The higher wattage speakers should be fine for your setup. It is more about the efficiency of your speakers as far as sound quality in a low wattage system. If you can find & remove the crossovers, you should have good sound out of them. I'm still working on understanding your second question entirely, so I'll get back to you on that as soon as I can.
Best,
Abe

 

[gr8ful]

Second question thoughts - you are right about the wiring fort the amp. It should have one really heavy guage direct power wire (Should have a big fuse inline in it somewhere), and one (usually yellow) power wire that is an, "power up" signal from the stereo, then usually a pair of RCA in wires as well (or digital in, if you have a super high end system). It sounds like the PO took your two channel amp & wired it in Mono. Basically a 2x500 watt amp can be wired in mono to get 1x1000 power, and since he was running one sub, & based on your description, I'm guessing that is what he did. It's been years since I really followed car audio closely, but back in the day you had to increase your power by x10 to double your sound output without any real perceived distortion, so that is why the massive output on that sub. If you like good sound (and since you are talking about a premium head unit upgrade I assume you do), I would suggest you look into a small/medium 5 channel amp. Due to the 5 channels they cost a bit more, but you will get a solid, level power output across the whole thing, and they are far easier to wire than a bunch of seperates. A 5 channel will basically offer somthing like 50watts x 4 (two front & two rear speakers) & 200x1 for the sub. The difference being that it will be 50watts RMS, and will have the power at the loud end to not get a ton of distortion like a regular car stereo with no amp. So you can play the music louder & still have it sound great at the same time. Basiclly you just swap the power/rca/yellow, 'on' wires to your new one. then run speaker wires for all 5 speakers ( you can just run wires under your carpet or door jamb covers to your current wiring & then tie in there.

Hope this helps.
Best,
Abe

 

[Living in the Past]

Follow the wiring for your front speakers. Based on the setup you mention, I'm willing to be money that you have crossovers wired into them to remove all of the deep end base from the front speakers. They will either be a couple of little units that are wired inline, or even potentially as simple as just a couple of capacitors wired into the positive line. They basically remove all of the low end signal & prevent your speakers from getting a lot of bass distortion. Great if you have a large system with subs. But they eliminate a ton of deep end sound if you take the subs out. The higher wattage speakers should be fine for your setup. It is more about the efficiency of your speakers as far as sound quality in a low wattage system. If you can find & remove the crossovers, you should have good sound out of them. I'm still working on understanding your second question entirely, so I'll get back to you on that as soon as I can.
Best,
Abe

Thanks for responding. The bass response is less but it's not that much less. All the PO did was to cut the soldered connections off the door speakers. The speakers are mounted in a separate plastic housing. That housing has two connectors besides two wires for the speaker. One connector is for the wires from the amp. The other is for the tweeters at the front bottom of the window opening. When the PO installed the aftermarket speakers he used butt connectors to add some very light gauge wire to make it easier to get everything hooked. Connections had come loose which is way they weren't working. All I did was remove the spliced on wire, add stake-on connectors. Plug them in and reinstall the speakers. No crossover or other wires involved. I assume there is a internal crossover in these two way aftermarkets speakersand one at the tweeter in the window opening. My concern while a 200 watt speaker can handle more power it also takes more power to get it to sound descent. Here is a example. I have number a different speakers hooked up to a garage stereo. Mach Ones which are rated at 160 watts. Some 1969 allied speakers rated at only 30 watts. The allied speaker have a very weak bass even with 12" woofer. But they add quite a bit in vocals and acoustic guitar. My current speaker switch is just that a switch. With no way to adjust the volume to different speakers. The allied speakers are actually a little louder than the Mach Ones, same with the Nova 8Bs I also have wired.to the same switch. I have few sets of the Nova 8B speakers. I hooked a set up to old realistic amp I've had since the seventies. Only rated at 22 watts per channel. For a stereo I use inside it wasn't good match. Required turning volume to higher then I wanted to get a descent sound. I think my point is the factory speaker might be a better match to the factory amp. The distortion at the high end of the amp is going to less than the 30 watt rating. Until I getting to that distortion point those speaker would louder sound. Getting late I'll response to your other post to tomorrow. I will say I have installed the head and separate factory amp already. All the correct wires are there for a sub woofer including a inline fuse close to the battery. More tomorrow.

 

[Living in the Past]

Second question thoughts - you are right about the wiring fort the amp. It should have one really heavy guage direct power wire (Should have a big fuse inline in it somewhere), and one (usually yellow) power wire that is an, "power up" signal from the stereo, then usually a pair of RCA in wires as well (or digital in, if you have a super high end system). It sounds like the PO took your two channel amp & wired it in Mono. Basically a 2x500 watt amp can be wired in mono to get 1x1000 power, and since he was running one sub, & based on your description, I'm guessing that is what he did. It's been years since I really followed car audio closely, but back in the day you had to increase your power by x10 to double your sound output without any real perceived distortion, so that is why the massive output on that sub. If you like good sound (and since you are talking about a premium head unit upgrade I assume you do), I would suggest you look into a small/medium 5 channel amp. Due to the 5 channels they cost a bit more, but you will get a solid, level power output across the whole thing, and they are far easier to wire than a bunch of seperates. A 5 channel will basically offer somthing like 50watts x 4 (two front & two rear speakers) & 200x1 for the sub. The difference being that it will be 50watts RMS, and will have the power at the loud end to not get a ton of distortion like a regular car stereo with no amp. So you can play the music louder & still have it sound great at the same time. Basiclly you just swap the power/rca/yellow, 'on' wires to your new one. then run speaker wires for all 5 speakers ( you can just run wires under your carpet or door jamb covers to your current wiring & then tie in there.

Hope this helps.
Best,
Abe

Did a little research on what the PO installed. Front door speakers can be had for about $25 a pair. Radio is no longer but was around $70 when it was. 14 watts X 4 channels. Amp in for the sub woofer is a Pyramid which can be bought for $40. Diagram on the back shows how to wire it in mono but that is not how the PO wired it. One of the connector at the amp for the woofer fell off when removing. I normally solder/in the wire end and skip connector on lug type connections.

The premium unit I installed I bought from the guy who bought my 2001 Tundra after I traded it in for a 100 series. He didn't even know it was my old truck. He worked at the same place I did. After replacing it for a aftermarket unit he offered it to me for $25. To good a price to pass up. This was in 2006 so I've had it sitting around for a while. Already had a Amp from a single CD Tundra unit I had then skipped every once in a while. So I replaced it with a JBL 6 CD unit. This is in my 89 FJ62 and it was all plug and play like the 4Runner.

I have two concerns about using a sub woofer with my current set up. Unless I'm wrong the RCA plugs for the sub woofer amp are paralleled with either the front or rear speakers. How much power is lost for the sub woofer input? I also understand adjusting the fader will effect how much output you get from the rear amp. The aftermarket radio had two RCA port for the amp so I'm guessing that was simply controlled by the volume knob.

Second is I believe the setups I seen to make a adapter for a sub without cutting into factory wiring use the power antenna wire to turn on the woofer amp. That was fine with the aftermarket radio since even while using the CD the antenna was up. On the stock unit only while the radio is on does the antenna get power. If that is the way it works then only when listening to the radio would the sub woofer work. Would need to have separate power source and mount a separate switch to operate.

I like the idea of the five channel amp. Issue I have is I want to keep my current head unit. Also the size of the amp I guessing would require it to be located somewhere other than behind the dash where the stock amp is mounted. Adapters for the vehicle wiring are easy to find. I'm guessing even the stock wiring to the door speakers would work for the sound levels I want. Adding heavy gauge speaker wire to a woofer would be pretty easy. The biggest issue is the stock amp has harness that feeds the head unit. Replacing the whole head unit/amp is common. Haven't really seen plugs available for keeping the head unit and replacing the amp. The head unit I'm using is also the same unit used in the 2000-2002 100 series which have a sub woofer. But the amp was different. If that add has separate output just for the woofer I don't know. I do know there is not a separate control for the sub woofer just the standard fader.