BlueTec engines (1 Viewer)

Joined
Feb 2, 2010
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93
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Chehalis, WA
 
 
Just for the sake of discussion, after all the diesel conversions from all makes and models, has anyone seen/heard/tried a 3.0L bluetec out of a Grand Cherokee? I have seen everything but that engine discussed or attempted. Not really interested in why you shouldn't do it for moral reasons, but even a somewhat thorough google search resulted in nada. The only reason that I can think that it is so uncommon is because Jeep only offered the engine for a couple of years. With decent power numbers in a relatively small package maybe a Frankenstein isn't a bad idea?

Dr. Frankenstein: [Holds up hand] Ah. Good. Uh... would you mind telling me... whose brain... I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Frankenstein: I will not be angry.
Igor: [Shrugs] Abby someone.
Dr. Frankenstein: Abby someone? Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Frankenstein: [Slightly angry] Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name. [He and Dr. Frankenstein laugh]
 

David*BJ70

Looking forward to reach the end of the world
Joined
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Blue Tec engine was designed by Mercedes-Benz. Although it was used by Jeep when they were partner is still used in some Mercedes SUV.

Seen from this angle ... it is less immoral to use this engine in a Toyota ;)
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
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93
Location
Chehalis, WA
 
 
Blue Tec engine was designed by Mercedes-Benz. Although it was used by Jeep when they were partner is still used in some Mercedes SUV.

Seen from this angle ... it is less immoral to use this engine in a Toyota ;)

True. I never feel bad about that stuff (although it is much cooler to have a Toyota diesel in a Toyota), because I figure they all get parts from each other anyways.

I did a little research last night and I think/assume the real challenge and turn off for most people is the electronic control and associated headaches. The other parts might be the transmission adaptation, cost, and availability, but upon further review... these engines seem to be everywhere. They made a good number of them over seas and are still available in production vehicles here in the states. I Don't see them being any more expensive than an electronically controlled Cummins 4bt or 6bt.

Again, I am throwing this out for discussion. I know I am not the first person to think about doing this. Maybe some of our resident diesel experts have some insight.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
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Tannhauser Gate
"bluetec" is more in reference to a particular type of emissions control system than a particuar engine.
if you want a benz engine, just get an om603 or om617. adapter plates are available for these, parts are ubiquitous and relatively cheap, and the electronics are pretty minimal.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Chehalis, WA
 
 
"bluetec" is more in reference to a particular type of emissions control system than a particuar engine.
if you want a benz engine, just get an om603 or om617. adapter plates are available for these, parts are ubiquitous and relatively cheap, and the electronics are pretty minimal.
I will be more specific than bluetec, specifically I am considering the 3.0L Mercedes built OM624, the engine in the Grand Cherokees. I'm not dead set on one, but with about 220hp and 380ft/lbs in a sub 500 lbs package and all of the other advantage it offers, it seems like a decent candidate to do a swap versus something else hi tech like the LC200's 4.7L bi-turbo diesel (which is available through your local Toyota dealer for the price of your soul+shipping).

I have seen a few conversions with the older MB diesels and they have some nice features, but nothing with the newer one.
 
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Whidbey Island, WA
Lots of HP and Torque in a small package doesn't mean it will work in a 5000 lb Wagon. Numbers do not tell the whole story. Do you know if any one has put one in a heavier rig than a cherokee?

Just for an oddball comparison, I believe a 22RE or the newer motor in my 95 Tacoma both have more power and torque than my 3B but neither motor would last in my BJ. Along the same lines the diesels being put in the newer pick ups today have comparable HP and Torque to some Semi's but one of those motors wouldn't last very long in a semi. This sort of info is left out when just comparing output numbers.

Be interesting to see if someone has effectively used such a motor in a heavy wagon.

But since you live in WA why not just go up to BC and buy a toyota diesel powered rig? Easy to do and register in WA, thats how I got mine.

Tony
 
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642. used also in the sprinter vans, but without the bluetec stuff iirc. apparently they have some serious head issues, the m272 (3.5l) is supposed to be a much better engine overall. the sprinter vans also are known for catastophic transmission failures, might be easier to find than a cherokee with a blue tec. ideally a fella would want a wreck or half-cut so you have all the electronics laid out for you, instead of a spaghetti mess of a harness to sort through.

not saying it's a bad idea (i was wanting to find a 2kd-ftv for my pickup, but $8,000 + mods wasn't worth it), it just might be a bit cost prohibitive compared to doing an om603.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
93
Location
Chehalis, WA
 
 
Lots of HP and Torque in a small package doesn't mean it will work in a 5000 lb Wagon. Numbers do not tell the whole story. Do you know if any one has put one in a heavier rig than a cherokee?

Just for an oddball comparison, I believe a 22RE or the newer motor in my 95 Tacoma both have more power and torque than my 3B but neither motor would last in my BJ. Along the same lines the diesels being put in the newer pick ups today have comparable HP and Torque to some Semi's but one of those motors wouldn't last very long in a semi. This sort of info is left out when just comparing output numbers.

Be interesting to see if someone has effectively used such a motor in a heavy wagon.

But since you live in WA why not just go up to BC and buy a toyota diesel powered rig? Easy to do and register in WA, thats how I got mine.


Tony

This is the discussion that I am looking for. Thanks guys. After a quick search It looks like the Cherokee is tipping the scales at about 4400lbs plus it can tow a respectable amount. In terms of durability and power (looking at an internet dyno on the motor, and we know those things never lie) I think that it would be a pretty good match. With the weight and proper gearing (for tires) I don't think that engine would be over burdened.

I do have a BJ60 and it is a total rust bucket from BC. I bought it to do a conversion on my FJ that I am in the process of, but I wish it had more power (I know, who doesn't?) which got me to thinking about the MB engine.

642. used also in the sprinter vans, but without the bluetec stuff iirc. apparently they have some serious head issues, the m272 (3.5l) is supposed to be a much better engine overall. the sprinter vans also are known for catastophic transmission failures, might be easier to find than a cherokee with a blue tec. ideally a fella would want a wreck or half-cut so you have all the electronics laid out for you, instead of a spaghetti mess of a harness to sort through.

not saying it's a bad idea (i was wanting to find a 2kd-ftv for my pickup, but $8,000 + mods wasn't worth it), it just might be a bit cost prohibitive compared to doing an om603.
Ahh the Sprinter van. I haven't forgot about those, it just seems that most of them have a bunch of miles on them, or the previous owner pulled the motor because they had a fleet and wanted the engine for parts. I'll keep an eye out though. I'd get a whole vehicle (I've found that is the only way to go, otherwise you spend just as much searching for the little parts you need) if I was doing a conversion and with the Cherokee you even get the 5/6 speed transmission and AWD with 4 low if you are into that. I kind of am since I do more driving in ice and snow than in Mud.

it should only cost ~$6,000 to fix all the rust...

:flipoff2:
I think that is a pretty conservative estimate based on some of the rust repair threads on this forum.


Retorts?
 
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Since I am a 3B type of guy I say just use the donor you have and put it in. My rebuilt diesel took us the 900 miles to Rubicon and back fully loaded without an engine hick up. Yes they are slow, mine even more so because of 4.88 gears in the axles. And this is an engine with over 300,000 miles on it. I would like to see one of the newer high tech engines last this long...

While I have zero experience with the mercedes diesels, I still wonder about the longevity in a heavy rig. Small motors have to work harder than a larger motor. This has nothing to do with the quality of the engine but in how it is used. Like one of the diesel mechs I work with said, there is only so much power you can get out of a diesel and it comes down to longevity or power. Some of the modern high tech Cummins Q series that we have installed (in boats but I am sure it applies to road engines) have warranties that get shorter as the power rating goes up.

On the other hand if you don't wheel a lot you may not be happy with a 3B. I have never been in a hurry on the road so I put up with the manners of a mine on the highway because of how it works off road, mileage, ease of maintenance etc. I prefer things simple. It's an absolutely outstanding engine on the trail. 10 mpg all the way through the Rubicon surprised me while the V8 rigs were getting less than 3mpg. (The road trip home got 22 mpg)

When it comes down to it, everything is a compromise. Best of luck with whatever you chose

Tony
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
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48
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south of the Netherlands
well they use merc diesels for many conversions in europe.
the best to use is the old 5cyl 3.0l with turbo, it even holds up in a unimog 406 with shelter (5 ton loaded) and in many landrovers.
 
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The Engine is also used in the ML and GL SUV for Mercedes. You will be just fine in your cruiser...SERIOUSLY look at your current engines in those beasts. You have more power and TQ than you started with.

That said I would love to tackle it but the electronics are going to be a pain and figuring out what you want to do for a transmission/tcase will be pretty tough.

I have a 08 V6 Bluetech and it will pull any cruiser better than anything they ever came with.
 
Joined
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Perth, Australia
The Engine is also used in the ML and GL SUV for Mercedes. You will be just fine in your cruiser...SERIOUSLY look at your current engines in those beasts. You have more power and TQ than you started with.

That said I would love to tackle it but the electronics are going to be a pain and figuring out what you want to do for a transmission/tcase will be pretty tough.

I have a 08 V6 Bluetech and it will pull any cruiser better than anything they ever came with.
No doubt the CDI engines are exceptionally good, but not *that* much better than older school DI engines. They are ALOT cleaner and have alot of tuning in them left too, but a 15B-FT, 12HT, 1HDT 1HD-FTE or a... oh heck you get the idea... with an intercooler and good turbo and tune many of them will out pull a stock CDI from Cherokee easily and without any electronics and do it *relatively* cleanly.

We have here a 1HD-FT that is pulling more peak torque and also 210-220 hp @ wheels with nothing more than an eBay $150 intercooler, a turbo high flow and exhaust and tune - its done over 300kkm and is awesome to drive.

Granted you can also chip the CDI to excellent performance too, but packaging wise, ease of working on it, cost if it goes bang with all the shennigans - stick with Toyota (or other old school Isuzu, Cummins etc).

The OM603/OM606 seem best from performance potential (though I would argue you could get close with a 1HD-x) BUT are hardly what you would call economical compared to a DI engine.

Common rail is the best performance (although Pump Duse is also about as good) for sure, BUT have any iof you seen the cost when it goes wrong? Recently a neighbour put petrol in his Hyundai Sante fe diesel (nice 140kW, 400nm 2.2 Diesel) and the cost to fix was, wait for it.....more than $20,000!!!!! Fortunately covered by insurance, but still.....

Of course that is the most it will cost, but the economical gains go out the window when costs surface like that.

We have a 12HT that I fitted a hiflow turbo to here that is putting down around the 480nm mark at crank and ~ 140-150hp @ wheels (up from 90hp) and the only mods are the same as the 1HD-FT I mentioned earlier (turbo, exhaust, intercooler Total cost of mods around $2300). It makes more than 450nm by only 1600rpm and peak power at ~ 3500. So it has a WIDE power band and is terrific to drive.

So at the end of the day, if you have access to cheap parts for a CDI engine and a micro dust free environment to work in, CDI would be right for you. If your like the rest of us, a bit more agricultural makes sense in my opinion.

By the way, dont forget the 15B-FT. These are a new discovery to me (inline pump, 16 valve, CT26 Turbo, 4.1L) - A customer just ordered a *full* performance CT26 for it from me. He is intercooling it and going to push ~ 25psi into it (or whatever is needed to find the bottleneck (air or fuel). It is in a Toyota Dyna 4x4 Dual cab Truck. I dont expect to get a dyno figure though and may not even get to see it since he lives 2000km north of me in bush. But if I ever needed a 4cyl to do the business, that would be it I think. Wasnt expensive either (~ $3,500, but need confirmation on that)
 

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