Bilstein 6112 and 5160 suspension swap and spring questions (1 Viewer)

[captainva]

Hey everyone. I'm planning on doing a suspension swap with a 2" lift and I've been reading through a lot of threads about suspension setups. There's a ton of information out there and I've learned a lot thanks to this community but I still have a few questions.

First off I've narrowed things down to Bilstein 6112 in the front with JBA STD High Caster Upper A-arms for clearance with Bilstein 5160 in the rear and Airlift 1000 or Firestone rear airbags using the factory compressor (thanks HomersCanyonero and SouthernSS). I still need to tow with my truck but it is mostly driven around town and on some trails so I'm only looking for some factory/medium rate springs to maintain comfort.

For spring rates in the front, the standard springs that come with the 6112s is 600 lbs. I've heard that this is a bit light and that without any added weight the nose will dive. I'm thinking that because of the added weight of the V8 and a future bumper the 700 lbs springs that are available from Bilstein would be best based on some reading in the 4runner forum. In the rear I want a 2" spring to level the vehicle (I don't want rake) and I've seen a lot of posts where people mention swapping to progressive rear springs but none of the product listings for any of the big manufacturers MT, OME, Icon, Eibach, etc. actually list the springs as progressive aside from the Metal Tech long travel. I don't think I need long travel springs because the 5160s aren't long enough for that to matter but I want to make sure that I'm getting progressive springs.

Can anyone comment on the front spring rate and make a recommendation for rear progressive springs that give a 2" lift? Also anything else that I've missed or other recommendations?

Thanks!

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Another option for the progressive rear springs are the Dobinson C59-675V- Variable rate

My research indicates they give you about a 1.75” lift, but getting true lift measurements it’s tough because measuring hub to fender distances is an inexact science when comparing stock vs modified suspensions.

 

[Thatpanda]

Just so you know I’m running OME 884’s (rated at 590lbs) in the front of my gx470 and it barely dives at all during heavy braking when compared to the factory suspension. The factory suspension felt like the nose was dropping 6+ inches vs the OME which feels like it stays virtually flat. Not an apples to apples comparison considering I’m running OME dampers and a trimmed stock bumper with full skids, but the 590lb of the 884 might give you an idea. Also the 884 up front feels way way stiffer than stock.

You should check out this thread on the 4Runner forum. Has a complete list of all Dobinsons springs for the 120 platform including specs. Dobinsons seems to be the new hotness when it comes to springs since they have such a vast selection, probably more than anyone else. Also is there a specific reason you’re looking for progressive rate springs?

Toyota-4Runner.org

The Largest 4Runner Community in the World

www.toyota-4runner.org

 

[captainva]

Another option for the progressive rear springs are the Dobinson C59-675V- Variable rate

My research indicates they give you about a 1.75” lift, but getting true lift measurements it’s tough because measuring hub to fender distances is an inexact science when comparing stock vs modified suspensions.

Thanks for the advice! I'll look at what Dobinson has to offer

Just so you know I’m running OME 884’s (rated at 590lbs) in the front of my gx470 and it barely dives at all during heavy braking when compared to the factory suspension. The factory suspension felt like the nose was dropping 6+ inches vs the OME which feels like it stays virtually flat. Not an apples to apples comparison considering I’m running OME dampers and a trimmed stock bumper with full skids, but the 590lb of the 884 might give you an idea. Also the 884 up front feels way way stiffer than stock.

You should check out this thread on the 4Runner forum. Has a complete list of all Dobinsons springs for the 120 platform including specs. Dobinsons seems to be the new hotness when it comes to springs since they have such a vast selection, probably more than anyone else. Also is there a specific reason you’re looking for progressive rate springs?

Toyota-4Runner.org

The Largest 4Runner Community in the World

www.toyota-4runner.org

Interesting that 590 lbs front spring don't dive. The thread that you linked is a really good reference but I think its interesting that the spring weight is the same for the V6 and V8 considering that the V8 weights about 200 lbs more. To me that would say go for a beefier spring right off the bat.

As for the progressive springs, I have some H&R sport springs I used to lower my GS (I know totally different application). I like that they're very comfortable over small bumps and they load up over big bumps so don't bottom out. That gives a comfortable ride that isn't floaty and makes the car handle better. With the stock air springs it feels like I'm hitting the bump stops when I go over speed bumps at even moderate speeds which I'm thinking progressive springs should help prevent

 

[Thatpanda]

The Dobinsons show the same rate but compensate for the extra weight with more length it looks like, same as OME I believe. On my truck I originally had OME 883’s in the front but when I added skids and sliders and it dropped the front almost and inch so I installed 884’s which brought it back up to pre armor height. Both the 883 and 884 use the same rate but different lengths and I didn’t notice a difference in ride or handling between them, even with the additional weight. The 883’s just felt like the nose of my truck was pointed at the ground. So using a both Dobinsons and OME’s method of compensating for extra weight which is basically adding spring length, you might be able to compensate for extra future weight with adjusting the perch height on the 6112’s.
Just food for thought.

 

[MNGX]

I have both 6112s with 600lb springs and the variable rate Dobinsons. I'll say if the 650 lb springs for the Bilsteins had been available I would have gone with them. The 600s are completely fine at stock weight, but I imagine a steel bumper would be better with stiffer springs. 700 sounds like overkill but that's just me guessing.

The Dobinsons are excellent so far - at their price point, at least. ETA: they gave me right at 2" over 110k mile stock height.

 

[SIMKGX]

I just ordered 6112s with 650 lb springs a few days ago. The pros of the heavier spring outweigh the cons for my needs.
I plan on the 675V Dobinsons springs as I am shooting for ~2" front & back (I will maintain some rake).

My problem is choosing rear shocks. I'm leaning towards Icon VS 2.0 RR, however I do wish that MT had these in the LT configuration. For now, I am pretty sure I will stick with the 56505R version and upgrade later if I feel the shock is "holding me back" at all.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@MNGX which spring conversion kit did you use? MT or SSO?

@SIMKGX Whats a 56505R? -- [Update -- Never mind. 56505R are the Icon Rear Shocks Remote Resi V2.0]

 

[captainva]

I have both 6112s with 600lb springs and the variable rate Dobinsons. I'll say if the 650 lb springs for the Bilsteins had been available I would have gone with them. The 600s are completely fine at stock weight, but I imagine a steel bumper would be better with stiffer springs. 700 sounds like overkill but that's just me guessing.

The Dobinsons are excellent so far - at their price point, at least. ETA: they gave me right at 2" over 110k mile stock height.

Awesome! Thats just what I wanted to hear.

I just ordered 6112s with 650 lb springs a few days ago. The pros of the heavier spring outweigh the cons for my needs.
I plan on the 675V Dobinsons springs as I am shooting for ~2" front & back (I will maintain some rake).

My problem is choosing rear shocks. I'm leaning towards Icon VS 2.0 RR, however I do wish that MT had these in the LT configuration. For now, I am pretty sure I will stick with the 56505R version and upgrade later if I feel the shock is "holding me back" at all.

Do you have any added weight or are you still stock?

 

[MNGX]

@MNGX which spring conversion kit did you use? MT or SSO?

Metal Tech w/ isolator. I couldn't figure how the SSO could be worth the extra money.

 

[SIMKGX]

Do you have any added weight or are you still stock?

Stock weight at the moment.
Don't plan on a bumper at this time but will add skids. I also will toy-around with running with no swaybar which stiffer springs should help with.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@MNGX do you have a build thread? I wanted to know your build details like tires, wheels, rear shocks, hub to fender measurements, etc. to compare to mine. I bought my 03GX470 with 6112s and 600 lbs/in coils in front, but I plan to upgrade the front coils to 650# ones when I do the rear conversion.

@SIMKGX I hope you do a build thread too as well as the OP of this thread @captainva to document those that have the setup I desire!

 

[MNGX]

Build Thread, such as it is.

I would re-title if I could figure out how. And wasn't lazy.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@SIMKGX Re: My problem is choosing rear shocks. I'm leaning towards Icon VS 2.0 RR, however I do wish that MT had these in the LT configuration. For now, I am pretty sure I will stick with the 56505R version and upgrade later if I feel the shock is "holding me back" at all.

From what I've read, the standard travel rear shock is not going to hold you back. The rear sway bar end links, rear links, and brake lines might limit your first before the rear shock limits you. I don't know which one limits you the most.

If it's easy for you to replace the rear shocks, then you might consider what @MNGX did and go with the cheaper Dobinson G59-701 shocks. They are a little longer and measure 14.25" compressed and 23.82" extended. That's an inch longer than the OME 60004s which top out at 22.8" extended. Bilstein 5160s 25-227611 are 23.5" extended and 14.83" compressed based on internet research that I found.

I honestly don't know what's the most limiting factor in the rear to get more articulation, but some of the easier modifications to get some additional articulation are:
1. Extend the brake lines
2. Extend the sway bar end links
3. Loosen up the speed sensor cables
4. Use slightly longer shocks like the Dobinson ones mentioned above
5. Extend bump stops

 

[SIMKGX]

@SIMKGX Re: My problem is choosing rear shocks. I'm leaning towards Icon VS 2.0 RR, however I do wish that MT had these in the LT configuration. For now, I am pretty sure I will stick with the 56505R version and upgrade later if I feel the shock is "holding me back" at all.

From what I've read, the standard travel rear shock is not going to hold you back. The rear sway bar end links, rear links, and brake lines might limit your first before the rear shock limits you. I don't know which one limits you the most.

If it's easy for you to replace the rear shocks, then you might consider what @MNGX did and go with the cheaper Dobinson G59-701 shocks. They are a little longer and measure 14.25" compressed and 23.82" extended. That's an inch longer than the OME 60004s which top out at 22.8" extended. Bilstein 5160s 25-227611 are 23.5" extended and 14.83" compressed based on internet research that I found.

I honestly don't know what's the most limiting factor in the rear to get more articulation, but some of the easier modifications to get some additional articulation are:
1. Extend the brake lines
2. Extend the sway bar end links
3. Loosen up the speed sensor cables
4. Use slightly longer shocks like the Dobinson ones mentioned above
5. Extend bump stops

I agree which is why I'm still leaning towards the 56505R.

Brake lines, sway bar links, lower links and all misc hardware will be replaced at the same time as the shocks. I'm not too worried about the upper link as I'm not planning to lift high enough that pinion angle should be much of an issue.

I have thought about the Dobinson shocks, but I still believe that the Icon rear shocks will compliment the 6112s up front better than Dobinsons would. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what my head is telling me.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Nice. You are doing a lot more work on the rear than I thought you were.

Please document the details of your build. It would be great to see all the parts you used and how much extra articulation you feel you got.

I know that Icon sells kits to upgrade the rear including most of the parts you mentioned, but it’s hard to quantify/measure the improvement.

Manny

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Back to the OP

I think you got your answers for the front. Go with 650 lbs/in springs on the 6112s. I plan to upgrade to 650s and I’m stock in front other than skid plates and rock sliders. Go 700# if you plan to add more weight like a front bumper and/or winch.

For the rear, i would go with the Dobinson C59-675Vs springs and pick a rear shock that kinda matches the valving of the front shocks. I feel like the Bilstein 5160s will be a good match. Some stated they are happy with the Dobinson G59-701s. Someone else thinks the Icon 56505R are a good match.

 

[captainva]

Back to the OP

I think you got your answers for the front. Go with 650 lbs/in springs on the 6112s. I plan to upgrade to 650s and I’m stock in front other than skid plates and rock sliders. Go 700# if you plan to add more weight like a front bumper and/or winch.

For the rear, i would go with the Dobinson C59-675Vs springs and pick a rear shock that kinda matches the valving of the front shocks. I feel like the Bilstein 5160s will be a good match. Some stated they are happy with the Dobinson G59-701s. Someone else thinks the Icon 56505R are a good match.

Thanks for the advice! I think 650 front should be right for me then. I'll have to do some more research to decide between the Bilstein or Dobson rear shocks but the 675V springs seems about right

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Also, measure your current hub to fender distance. Since suspensions sag by different amounts, your actual lift will vary depending how much sag you have.

That’s why when someone says they got a 2” lift in the front with a certain setup, it’s hard to tell if you are going to get the same lift because you don’t know what their measurements were prior to the lift.

I bought mine already lifted and tricked, so I can only tell you where I’m at now hub to fender. So, measure now and after the lift to get your actual lift. And share the results in case someone wants to copy your setup.

 

[captainva]

I'll make sure I measure before lifting. Gotta get the timing belt done before I start so it will probably be a fall project but its good to plan ahead