Bad Pilot Bearing Sounds?

[doug720]

What does a bad pilot bearing sound like? On my swap, I have had a rattle sound from the clutch area since day one. Never has got worse or better.

I used all new clutch, pilot and throwout bearings and flywheel.

When I start her up and everything is cold no noise, after driving noise starts. Happens when stopped or moving as I tried transfer case in neutral test. I can some times stop or minimize the sound by pushing the pedal and releasing the clutch a few times quickly. The sound goes away every time the clutch is engaged (Pedal pushed in) and held there and comes back when released.

I have thought it was the transmission input shaft free spinning, possibly due to more vibrations from the diesel engine? But I came across a post on another forum about a bad pilot bearing making this type of sound.

The pilot bearing, Advance Adapters Chevota, was new and made this sound from the first drive.

What do you think? I have never had a bad pilot bearing before.

Thanks

Doug

 

[lostmarbles]

What does a bad pilot bearing sound like? On my swap, I have had a rattle sound from the clutch area since day one. Never has got worse or better.

I used all new clutch, pilot and throwout bearings and flywheel.

When I start her up and everything is cold no noise, after driving noise starts. Happens when stopped or moving as I tried transfer case in neutral test. I can some times stop or minimize the sound by pushing the pedal and releasing the clutch a few times quickly. The sound goes away every time the clutch is engaged (Pedal pushed in) and held there and comes back when released.

I have thought it was the transmission input shaft free spinning, possibly due to more vibrations from the diesel engine? But I came across a post on another forum about a bad pilot bearing making this type of sound.

The pilot bearing, Advance Adapters Chevota, was new and made this sound from the first drive.

What do you think? I have never had a bad pilot bearing before.

Thanks

Doug

Did you test the fit of the pilot bearing ID on the gearbox input shaft Doug?

Perhaps there's some play there for some reason.



PS. The clutch disengages when you push the pedal down.

 

[doug720]

LM

The pilot bearing fit properly on the shaft and felt good when I installed it. Not sure, but maybe just a bad bearing.

Engage/disengage...DOH

Thanks

Doug

 

[Ben-jammin]

Push your clutch pedal in a couple inches. Enough to take up the play, but not enough to disengage the clutch. Does the sound go away? My pressure plate makes a sqeuking sound when clutch is engaged, but goes away with slight pressure on clutch pedal. I think it is a loose spring on the pressure plate.

Cheers

Ben

 

[hedgehog23]

Push your clutch pedal in a couple inches. Enough to take up the play, but not enough to disengage the clutch. Does the sound go away? My pressure plate makes a sqeuking sound when clutch is engaged, but goes away with slight pressure on clutch pedal. I think it is a loose spring on the pressure plate.

Cheers

Ben

that can also be the throw out bearing.

 

[doug720]

Well I decided to take a weekend and find the problem once and for ALL!

Last night I pulled the engine, for me it's easier to do this than the trans/transfer case route and I had it out in 3 hours. I also wanted to do a couple of other things too.

I FOUND THE NOISE! Bad pilot bearing! I'm not sure if it happened putting in the engine or not, but the bearing is bad big time. Part of the race is backed out of the bushing. I can barely spin it and it feels like crap when it moves.

It looks weird, almost like it was made wrong. The bushing bore is not aligned with the bearing? Could be just what happens over time and use? Who knows. It was a brand new Advance Adapters Chevota bearing when I started.

At least I know what the problem is and it's a cheap fix, but a pain in the arse!. But I am making a few minor mods while I'm in there. Adding a block heater, fixing a minor oil leak, and spill timing the IP pump with easy access.

Doug

 

[lostmarbles]

Glad you found the problem Doug.

If it's not too much trouble I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the culprit.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Well I decided to take a weekend and find the problem once and for ALL!

Last night I pulled the engine, for me it's easier to do this than the trans/transfer case route and I had it out in 3 hours. I also wanted to do a couple of other things too.

I FOUND THE NOISE! Bad pilot bearing! I'm not sure if it happened putting in the engine or not, but the bearing is bad big time. Part of the race is backed out of the bushing. I can barely spin it and it feels like crap when it moves.

It looks weird, almost like it was made wrong. The bushing bore is not aligned with the bearing? Could be just what happens over time and use? Who knows. It was a brand new Advance Adapters Chevota bearing when I started.

At least I know what the problem is and it's a cheap fix, but a pain in the arse!. But I am making a few minor mods while I'm in there. Adding a block heater, fixing a minor oil leak, and spill timing the IP pump with easy access.

Doug

Glad you got it tracked down! I am pretty happy so far that I have had only one leak on the 4BD and it was just a loose screw!

Can you elaborate on the spill timing of the injection pump?

Clint

 

[doug720]

Bearing Update:

I called Advanced Adapters today to talk about pilot bearings and bushings and was told something interesting, they recommend using bushings, not bearings! In fact, in their kits they include bushings, no pilot bearings! Too many stories like mine of bad bearings and torn up input shafts. A bearing when it fails can/will hurt the input shaft, a bushing just wears out.

A new oil impregnated bronze bushing is on the way!

Just a little info.

Doug

 

[lostmarbles]

I think a bush will be OK there Doug and it is interesting to hear that opinion.

But Toyota used a deep-groove ball bearing there and most of us never have any issues with that.

I'm running an SKF-brand deep-groove bearing there and certainly don't expect any problems.

I suspect your bearing was either poor quality or got damaged by someone coupling your engine-to-transmission in a heavy-handed manner.

 

[doug720]

A good deep groove bearing is nice, but in this install, there's only room for a very small roller bearing. Notice how the bearing has backed out of the bushing about .140" I don't think it installed with a heavy hand, it went together nice and easy, but? The noise started with in a week of the install. I did remove the bearing with the grease and plunger method, but it was not turning well before I removed it.

Forgot the picture of the bad bearing,

Doug

 

[lostmarbles]

A good deep groove bearing is nice, but in this install, there's only room for a very small roller bearing. Notice how the bearing has backed out of the bushing about .140" I don't think it installed with a heavy hand, it went together nice and easy, but? The noise started with in a week of the install. I did remove the bearing with the grease and plunger method, but it was not turning well before I removed it.

Forgot the picture of the bad bearing,

Doug

Sorry I didn't realise you had a needle-roller bearing Doug. (My BJ40 has enough room to allow the design engineers to use a ball-type bearing.)

I can now understand fully why Advance Adapters prefer the bush there.

And that dimple on your shaft makes the bush even more preferable.

 

[lostmarbles]

Hullo again Doug.

Up until now, my comments (on your 2 separate threads on this topic) have been placed in ignorance of your vehicles background (and in ignorance of your wealth of experience and tremendous skills).

I've just read your build thread from beginning to end.... Wow!

Tremendous work there and it is great to see someone so willing to share their knowledge and experience.

Now the real reason I got interested in your build thread today (and spent more than the last hour reading it) is that I woke this morning asking myself ...................."How the hell did those dimples appear on your H55 input shaft?"





Do you know the history of that shaft?

All I can think of is that someone at some stage broke the end off it, rebuilt the broken off section with weld, then turned the added metal down ..... leaving those dimples where there was "pitting" in their welding.

Perhaps the dirty deed of a PO?



PS. I see from your build thread that this "clutch noise problem" dates right back to August last year when you first got mobile in your Isuzu-powered cruiser.

 

[doug720]

The shaft did not look that way before the pilot bearing problem. It was a new H55 when installed some years ago,

Doug

 

[lostmarbles]

The shaft did not look that way before the pilot bearing problem. It was a new H55 when installed some years ago,

Doug

Well I'm left confused then