Applying Stone Veneer

[romegadave]

When we first built I applied marine paint to the foundation and the cinder block piers. I know there are problems with applying the traditional mud to lay the faux rock (and we don't want to use the nails to apply the lath)---------anyone had any experience with using liquid nails to apply stone veneer in this manner. We've done a small test on the back side of the pier to see if it will hold given our recent warm weather then cold then warm again here in the south.

Thanks in advance for any help guys! Dave

 

[45Kevin]

These are the cement faux stones right?

I used mortar to apply mine. I was going over a wood substrate so I applied the metal lath first. I don't think you need to with a concrete substrate though.

They get set like ceramic tiles and the joints get filled later.

My only concern would be the integrity of the paint that is currently on your foundation.

 

[romegadave]

Thanks Kev....I failed to mention that I'm only applying the decorative stone on the piers/supports themselves. Our idea was to then fill in the grout after the application. I've always heard that the marine epoxy paint presents a problem if you go the route of using mud to apply the stone.

 

[titanpat57]

I think if you powerwash, wirebrush, then set your wire in thinset and some nails, and then apply your stone, you'll be ok.

I'm pretty sure when you apply to plywood they recommend appling a 15# building felt first, so there goes sticking to the plywood.

 

[romegadave]

Thanks Pat....but what if I didn't clean the marine coated surface? Do you think the liquid nails will simplly fail in time and just leave a mess?

If not I do wonder about the grout that we would apply between the stones. Will it fail too?

 

[Ebag333]

You can get epoxy based grout. I'd really recommend it. Cement grout will change color and look over time, even if you seal it. Epoxy grout is pretty much permanent and requires no sealing (eliminating maintenance that you'll forget to do a few years down the road).

Can't really help you on applying the veneer though. I know it can be done, I've seen stone applied over cinderblock (and had it hold up), just not sure how they did it. I really don't think you want to use liquid nails, however.

 

[romegadave]

Thanx EBag...you've given me more to think about!!

 

[Ebag333]

Here's some more.

Epoxy grout is really easy to use. The big key is to clean, clean, clean, and clean some more.

If you've got very flat and smooth tiles, or want to fill holes/gaps, then you can float the grout the traditional way. We used it on fake granite tiles, LOTS of ledges/etc didn't want the grout in. After mixing I'd roll it like you would a snake, press it into the cracks, then run the float (you need an epoxy float, it's not the same) as normal. This would keep the grout within an inch or two of the gaps, making clean up easier.

We cleaned the floor well before we started, and timed it very carefully to clean it up. IIRC there's two cleaning times, one at 20 minutes and another at an hour. I could be off on those, the directions are pretty clear. If you are careful to clean the floors at those times, you won't have any grout that shouldn't be there on the tiles.

For me (as slow as I am) this makes it a two person job minimum otherwise I can't use all the grout before it hardens (including cleaning time). Some people have reported freezing it to stop the hardening process, I've never done it but if you can't use it all you could try.

Gloves are a must. Get cheap disposable ones from Harbor Freight and change them often. The cleaner you hands and tools are, the less grout gets in places it shouldn't.

I found epoxy grout to be surprisingly easy to use, but I can see where it could go wrong if you weren't careful. If you don't get it all off the areas it shouldn't be, once it hardens it's permanent. Keep in mind that it's harder than the stone around it, which is why cleaning is so important. Also, don't use it where ever there will be expansion or movement (such as edges or corners). The grout won't flex or move, and will crack the stone around it.

So far we love it for our kitchen. It hasn't been heavily abused, but it's pretty much shrugged off everything we've thrown at it. It's more expensive than cement grout, but given the benefits I really don't see why anyone wouldn't use it.

Hope that helps.

 

[45Kevin]

I don't think you use grout in the joints. You use mortar and apply it with a squeeze bag (not the technical term, but pastry chefs use them to apply icing).

You can use outside rated construction adhesive to glue on the stone. It will secure them to the piers, but I'm not sure the adhesive will hold the stone in place as it dries. I suspect the pieces will sag if not supported somehow.

Thourghtly clean the marine paint before any glue is applied to it. I don't think mortar will bond very well to the paint.

 

[Ebag333]

I don't think you use grout in the joints. You use mortar and apply it with a squeeze bag (not the technical term, but pastry chefs use them to apply icing).

You can do grout. It depends on the look you're going for. I've seen grout, mortar, and plain old concrete all done with success.

 

[titanpat57]

Thanks Pat....but what if I didn't clean the marine coated surface? Do you think the liquid nails will simplly fail in time and just leave a mess?

If not I do wonder about the grout that we would apply between the stones. Will it fail too?

My biggest concern some times, is wither there will be a "reaction" (and I don't mean a good one) between the construction adhesives and the paint itself. If the paint softens, and looses it's grip...well..there goes the adhesion. Your other biggest enemy will be water intrusion. That could also cause premature failure. By grouting between the stones carefully, and tooling the joint smooth, that will help to keep moisture out. Flucuations in temps could also have an impact...expansion and contraction.

Do a test of several types of adhesives, give it a few days, and try to remove it. Some of the newer latex based (dry mix, add water, not the "milk" typ mix) adhesives are phenominal I also agree with with Ebag about epoxys. There is an adhesive that you could tile your refrigerator with....but it's pretty pricey. I'll try to remember the name while I'm sleeping tonight!

KERALASTIC!!..that's it!

 

[romegadave]

Pat, Kev, etc,

You've all been a great help.......I'm not going to take the chance on the liquid nails and it turns out our pillars are filled with concrete so we can use the minimum amount of nails to get the lath on for the mud. That's what I get for assuming and then posting but then again I had no idea about the expoxy grout -------Thanks for the help everyone!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ky Boy 33]

Stone veneer

Since you have concrete block, I would first apply a thin coat of Type S mortar to the block as a scratch coat. Then apply the stones using the same mortar and when dry, apply grout or mortar to seal joints. Works great this way over concrete foundations.

 

[romegadave]

Thanks KY and will bear this in mind when we start

 

[PAToyota]

I'd also suggest studying a bunch of pictures of real stone walls before you start. Nothing that I hate more than stone veneer that obviously looks like it has been glued together as a real stone wall constructed that way would never stand up! I actually saw one "lick-n-stick" stone veneer wall where they ran the courses vertically instead of horizontally!