Another Suspension thread. Koni, Tough Dog or Ironman?

[JM63]

By the way, my mechanic told me that changing the AHC fluid can be expensive, because it may require an adaptation/ calibration. Meanwhile most of the DIY on youtube doesn't mention anything about that. What's your experience?

 

[Bisho]

By the way, my mechanic told me that changing the AHC fluid can be expensive, because it may require an adaptation/ calibration. Meanwhile most of the DIY on youtube doesn't mention anything about that. What's your experience?

Check out the ABCs of AHC thread. The whole process is in the first post.

 

[willyroo]

By the way, my mechanic told me that changing the AHC fluid can be expensive, because it may require an adaptation/ calibration. Meanwhile most of the DIY on youtube doesn't mention anything about that. What's your experience?

As noted earlier in this thread, a full flush is very much DIY. PADDO's thread on how to do it:

Props to PADDO's AHC fluid replacement method!

forum.ih8mud.com

And here's my own observation in a RHD LX470.

 

[FairZ33]

To expand: a well riding truck will require ALL of the following to be in shape, regardless of shock system:

Upper and lower control arm bushings
Upper and lower ball joints
Sway bar bushings and end links
Upper and lower trailing arm bushings
All 3 diff bushings
Good drive shaft u-joints
Depending on your mileage, also likely engine and trans mounts. There is no mount for the transfer case.

If you put a great set of shocks on a truck in need of all/ some/ any of the above, it will suffer. But if you have all of the above checked, the truck with AHC will be better than anything else as far as ride quality.

One of my other cars is a 1991 560SEL. It has rear hydraulics almost identical to AHC. I fought to keep that system in place and I'm so glad for it. It's a magic carpet.

If you had to prioritize this list, including shocks, where would you start? I've picked up a 2007 Cruiser w/o AHC in the last few months and want to start tackling these parts as I can find the time/money.

 

[westaussielx470]

Hi everyone,

For a while now, I've been the owner of an HDJ100. My plan for the vehicle is fairly minimalist: 33" tires, a winch, a drawer setup, and maybe eventually a steel rear bumper.

Currently, I have AHC, which I love for its height adjustment capability. Unfortunately, the damping quality is, to put it mildly, poor—on soft settings, the car wobbles and bottoms out, and on hard settings, it drives like a wheelbarrow.

I'm slowly considering changing the suspension and am a bit torn about my options. I’m looking primarily for good damping, pothole absorption, and comfort—something like the KW V3 on the street, where the suspension is fairly stiff but absorbs everything beautifully. Definitely not something like the old Volvo XC70, where the car sways like a boat but you feel every bump anyway.

The Land Cruiser is exclusively for overlanding, but unfortunately because of where I live, 90% of the time it's used on asphalt to get to some nice off-road paths, so I don't need massive lifts etc. I just want good suspension performance.

Unfortunately, there's not much info on shocks for the J100 on YouTube, but I’ve read a bit on forums and am considering these three options:

• Koni Raid (I had the chance to drive a J100 with these shocks and was very impressed). They are rebuildable and have rebound adjustment (though it's somewhat inconvenient).
• Tough Dog Ralph up front + adjustable at the rear (many good reviews, good access to adjustment, but unfortunately only compression, not rebound. Price-wise, they're almost identical to Koni).
• Ironman FCP (a big plus here is the option to buy the entire stage 3 kit, which seems quite attractive compared to the other two, but it lacks adjustment and there are some reviews mentioning they’re too stiff. Another downside is the lack of an Ironman importer in my country).

The LC is the third vehicle in my garage, and I only drive it up to 10,000 miles a year, so durability is a benefit but not the most critical feature. I would appreciate any suggestions you might have.

for what its worth I had 2" lift with Bilstien's that were pretty ordinary on a 200 series. The local 4x4 shop pushed the Ironman FCP and it was the worst decision I had made, the on road ride was terrible and I took it back the next day. The mechanic thought I was an old fool and I made it VERY clear I asked for a near stock ride so give me what would achieve that and I had recorded video while driving to the shop and it was so bad it could give you motion sickness watching it. They agreed to give and full refund once I had the suspension of my choice fitted which was ultimately Outback Armour adjustable shocks front and a spring change as well. The ride was improvement was like night and day and was near stock comfort. One point to note is that I have seen quite a few sets of used FCP set ups for sale on Marketplace over the last few months. My brother has a 2003 100 series Sahara which has a terrible ride (I dont know his setup) and the AHC on my LX is so much nicer and works perfectly so I will maintain that and stick with it. It seems that all the shops seem to know more than Toyota when it comes to suspension and if extreme off roading is your thing then I can see why the stock setup needs sorting and perhaps i am just a fussy old bastard but how often does the average person spend offroad?

 

[willyroo]

200 series

Yep they're generally not happy with FCPs for some reason, especially if you have KDSS. Not generally a fan of OME however a mate has it in his 200 series and it's pretty good. You want brutal in a 200 series - go Lovells. Another mate has this in his 200 and my kidneys shrink just thinking of getting in it

My n=1 with an LC100 with FCP and Dobinson steel was very positive, certainly firmer than stock but never harsh. Torture test was the ocean wave corrugations on the Peninsula Development Road, and it was superb.

Now having AHC I wouldn't even think about going back to a conventional suspension, even Dobinsons with remote reservoir - which is kinda what AHC is - except much better.

 

[hortandr]

I'm running a tough dog full setup on my '06 100, I think the ride quality is good and the adjustments on the rear shocks are definitely noticeable! Firm for street use and a few clicks to soft for off road!

Where did you order your tough dog suspension from? I am asking because I submitted a web inquiry to them to see about options for my 06' and recieved the following message.
"Hello Andrew,
Thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately, we do not list your model vehicle in our catalogue and are unable to supply a kit for it.
Regards and thanks for your enquiry."
I have an 06' LX, I found this response very surprising seeing how much praise they get in the 100 series forums.
What suspension did you order from them??

 

[Bisho]

Where did you order your tough dog suspension from? I am asking because I submitted a web inquiry to them to see about options for my 06' and recieved the following message.
"Hello Andrew,
Thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately, we do not list your model vehicle in our catalogue and are unable to supply a kit for it.
Regards and thanks for your enquiry."
I have an 06' LX, I found this response very surprising seeing how much praise they get in the 100 series forums.
What suspension did you order from them??

They are going to say that, because your truck originally came with AHC. The 100 series suspension is a direct bolt in if you are removing AHC.

Unfortunately, there is no Tough Dog distributor in North America. I inquired about some lower shock bushings, and they sent me three dealers in Central and South America. I was hoping to just deal with Australia...

 

[Moparsncruisers]

Where did you order your tough dog suspension from? I am asking because I submitted a web inquiry to them to see about options for my 06' and recieved the following message.
"Hello Andrew,
Thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately, we do not list your model vehicle in our catalogue and are unable to supply a kit for it.
Regards and thanks for your enquiry."
I have an 06' LX, I found this response very surprising seeing how much praise they get in the 100 series forums.
What suspension did you order from them??

This suspension was on the vehicle when I bought it, but the previous owner did tell me it was ordered from @TRAIL TAILOR. It's been a few years though. I don't like the fact nobody in the US is a supplier anymore, hopefully I don't need any replacement parts anytime soon!

 

[JM63]

for what its worth I had 2" lift with Bilstien's that were pretty ordinary on a 200 series. The local 4x4 shop pushed the Ironman FCP and it was the worst decision I had made, the on road ride was terrible and I took it back the next day. The mechanic thought I was an old fool and I made it VERY clear I asked for a near stock ride so give me what would achieve that and I had recorded video while driving to the shop and it was so bad it could give you motion sickness watching it. They agreed to give and full refund once I had the suspension of my choice fitted which was ultimately Outback Armour adjustable shocks front and a spring change as well. The ride was improvement was like night and day and was near stock comfort. One point to note is that I have seen quite a few sets of used FCP set ups for sale on Marketplace over the last few months. My brother has a 2003 100 series Sahara which has a terrible ride (I dont know his setup) and the AHC on my LX is so much nicer and works perfectly so I will maintain that and stick with it. It seems that all the shops seem to know more than Toyota when it comes to suspension and if extreme off roading is your thing then I can see why the stock setup needs sorting and perhaps i am just a fussy old bastard but how often does the average person spend offroad?

My experience suggests that it’s difficult to compare shock absorbers between different cars. Sometimes the same model of shock absorber can feel completely different depending on the vehicle. I’ve had a few BMWs, and for example, the Bilstein B12 set in the E36 was super comfortable and handled bumps well, whereas in the 1 Series, the ride felt like a ping pong ball.

Subjective feelings also play a big role, but there are very few cars where I’d say I’m satisfied with factory shock absorbers' performance. Usually, they are too soft, causing body roll, yet they still transmit a lot of imperfections from the road. Unless we’re talking about modern BMW M models, where the comfort is dramatic, but once you start driving really fast, the suspension feels too soft and can’t keep up

But going back to my 100 series...
I’m looking for shock absorbers that will:

• Reduce body roll/ swinging
• "Smooth out" the road enough that the plastics inside resonate less on a poor surface
• Provide good damping quality so the suspension doesn’t bottom out on the first big dip.

 

[Bisho]

My experience suggests that it’s difficult to compare shock absorbers between different cars. Sometimes the same model of shock absorber can feel completely different depending on the vehicle. I’ve had a few BMWs, and for example, the Bilstein B12 set in the E36 was super comfortable and handled bumps well, whereas in the 1 Series, the ride felt like a ping pong ball.

Subjective feelings also play a big role, but there are very few cars where I’d say I’m satisfied with factory shock absorbers' performance. Usually, they are too soft, causing body roll, yet they still transmit a lot of imperfections from the road. Unless we’re talking about modern BMW M models, where the comfort is dramatic, but once you start driving really fast, the suspension feels too soft and can’t keep up

But going back to my 100 series...
I’m looking for shock absorbers that will:

• Reduce body roll/ swinging
• "Smooth out" the road enough that the plastics inside resonate less on a poor surface
• Provide good damping quality so the suspension doesn’t bottom out on the first big dip.

I think you’d be happy with Tough Dogs, if you can get them. I’m disappointed I can’t get them in the US anymore. Mine have 100k miles and still quite good.

 

[JM63]

I think you’d be happy with Tough Dogs, if you can get them. I’m disappointed I can’t get them in the US anymore. Mine have 100k miles and still quite good.

Thanks! Can you say something about the TD suspension travel? I'm wondering if it has a similar travel to let's say Ironman FCP/ Dobinsons or Konis.
According to the description, it only has a 1-inch lift. I'm wondering if in this case it's enough to just change the shocks and springs, or if I also need to do a diff drop and relocate the Panhard mount

 

[Bisho]

The shocks themselves give you no lift, you get lift from the springs and tb adjustments. I’m running OME springs and factory TBs and I’m really happy overall. I do have the diff drop, but I just added that after I lifted over 21” hub to fender. It’s really only for looks after that, as you lose an inch of clearance with the diff drop, but I did pick up a cv vibration and the diff drop solved it.

 

[Bisho]

IIRC my total droop is 23.75” hub to fender in front. I think you might get a bit more with the Dobinsons. There is a thread somewhere that has the max travel with different shocks.

 

[JM63]

The shocks themselves give you no lift, you get lift from the springs and tb adjustments. I’m running OME springs and factory TBs and I’m really happy overall. I do have the diff drop, but I just added that after I lifted over 21” hub to fender. It’s really only for looks after that, as you lose an inch of clearance with the diff drop, but I did pick up a cv vibration and the diff drop solved it.

Yeah, I know that the lift itself comes from springs/TB, but I was curious about the suspension travel. If there is any significant difference between TD that says 1" lift and Dobinsons/Konis with 2"

 

[keplerzet]

Hi everyone,

For a while now, I've been the owner of an HDJ100. My plan for the vehicle is fairly minimalist: 33" tires, a winch, a drawer setup, and maybe eventually a steel rear bumper.

Currently, I have AHC, which I love for its height adjustment capability. Unfortunately, the damping quality is, to put it mildly, poor—on soft settings, the car wobbles and bottoms out, and on hard settings, it drives like a wheelbarrow.

I'm slowly considering changing the suspension and am a bit torn about my options. I’m looking primarily for good damping, pothole absorption, and comfort—something like the KW V3 on the street, where the suspension is fairly stiff but absorbs everything beautifully. Definitely not something like the old Volvo XC70, where the car sways like a boat but you feel every bump anyway.

The Land Cruiser is exclusively for overlanding, but unfortunately because of where I live, 90% of the time it's used on asphalt to get to some nice off-road paths, so I don't need massive lifts etc. I just want good suspension performance.

Unfortunately, there's not much info on shocks for the J100 on YouTube, but I’ve read a bit on forums and am considering these three options:

• Koni Raid (I had the chance to drive a J100 with these shocks and was very impressed). They are rebuildable and have rebound adjustment (though it's somewhat inconvenient).
• Tough Dog Ralph up front + adjustable at the rear (many good reviews, good access to adjustment, but unfortunately only compression, not rebound. Price-wise, they're almost identical to Koni).
• Ironman FCP (a big plus here is the option to buy the entire stage 3 kit, which seems quite attractive compared to the other two, but it lacks adjustment and there are some reviews mentioning they’re too stiff. Another downside is the lack of an Ironman importer in my country).

The LC is the third vehicle in my garage, and I only drive it up to 10,000 miles a year, so durability is a benefit but not the most critical feature. I would appreciate any suggestions you might have.

Hey!

Had the exact same dilemma a few months back. I use my truck daily + for long trips with some light offroading, so having reliability without ruining the ride was a priority. Decided to remove AHC as one of the oil lines developed a severe leak.

Went with Koni Raid 90s, because they are rebuildable, relatively heavy duty, have rebound adjustment and excellent bottom-out control and are extended travel.

Recently did a 4k km trip from Lithuania to Spain, spent some time offroad in the Pyrennes and here are my impressions:

Positive:

Suspension feels firmer and way more supportive in low speed compressions;
More stable at speed over gravel 'washboards';
No harsh top-out when a wheel lifts;
Better articulation in the rear;
Tiny bit less body roll comparing to the firmest AHC setting.

Negative:

Harsher ride feel - bad asphalt roads feels way worse than with AHC (think firmest AHC setting and 3.5bar in the tires),
Kind of miss the auto height adjustment - when unloaded, the rear of my truck is way higher.

Overall I would say the RAIDs perform better offroad specifically, but AHC versatility and comfort is hard to beat.

 

[JM63]

Thanks! That's a hard one, because I'm not happy with AHC beeing too harsh on bad asphalt... I changed the fluid a week ago and it got a bit better on low speed, but short bumps and potholes are even worse now...

 

[keplerzet]

Thanks! That's a hard one, because I'm not happy with AHC beeing too harsh on bad asphalt... I changed the fluid a week ago and it got a bit better on low speed, but short bumps and potholes are even worse now...

I would like to also note that I run 2 year old KO2 LTs, so they might add harshness.

If it wasn't for the hydraulic line leak, I would have gone with the suspension spheres and new rear springs first.

 

[JM63]

I would like to also note that I run 2 year old KO2 LTs, so they might add harshness.

If it wasn't for the hydraulic line leak, I would have gone with the suspension spheres and new rear springs first.

I once drove a 100 series with koni raid for like 15 minutes. but it was quite loaded with steel bumpers, winch, 180l sub tank etc, on BFG KM02 285/75/16. Unfortunately only on decent road and sand, so there was no chance to see how it works on harsh asphalt. Have to say it was fantastic on low speed. I wonder how it compares to TD and Dobinson.

 

[keplerzet]

I once drove a 100 series with koni raid for like 15 minutes. but it was quite loaded with steel bumpers, winch, 180l sub tank etc, on BFG KM02 285/75/16. Unfortunately only on decent road and sand, so there was no chance to see how it works on harsh asphalt. Have to say it was fantastic on low speed. I wonder how it compares to TD and Dobinson.

True, once I loaded mine (two bikes on the back, drawers with all kinds of stuff and a loaded roof rack) the ride got way better. I think RAIDs are absolutely awesome as an aftermarket suspension, however its hard to beat AHC comfort