Advise for towing with LJ78?

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Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Threads
5
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43
Location
New Zealand
Hi,

I have a LJ78 with the 2lte/ auto box. So far the work i have done to the motor has been focused on getting the cooling system rock solid (which it seems to be) but now I'm wanting to start on the power side.

I normally tow a small 14ft open Stabicraft boat with no real issues. But the father in law has now offered up the use of his 16ft Stabi fisher- i didnt expect much difference with towing but with the added cabin, larger motor and slight size increase the added tow weight almost killed me on the hills. Cooling is still fine but im finding it hard to get over 30-40km/hr on the hills, and when you have spots to get to and a line of cars behind you wanting to drive at 100 its less than ideal...

Im in the middle of a front mount upgrade - just need to plumb in this weekend hopefully, then possibly increase the boost.

Im wanting to know how much the boost increase would help me though, this is my first diesel/ turbo so i have no idea on how much the boost increase will help/ past projects to compare it to... or is there something else i should be looking into also to give it some extra grunt up the hills also?

work so far has been- new radiator, rebuild fan hub (original blade), low temp thermostat, snorkel, new dump pipe, existing 2" pipes with muffler removed and replaced with a hotdog resonator, will have intercooler soon.

Cheers
 
You will never come close to keeping those behind who want to do a 100kph happy. Realistically , you probably wont get much more that another 20kph on the hills. You probably have added wind resistance working agianst you as well with the cabin on the 16ft boat.
Do you have a transmission cooler? Relying on the radiator to keep the transmission cool is also asking for trouble.
 
I've had a lot of experience towing with my LJ78. First thing I'd say is it's really not an ideal towing vehicle at all. If you have other options (like a pick-up), I recommend using them instead. Second thing, once you tune it up to make more power, it will run hotter again. I ended up switching to a waterless coolant to help protect the cylinder head. She gets good and hot (250F) towing up the hills in summer, but so far no bad has happened. I tow a 16' camper trailer (brick) that weighs about 3500lb when loaded (electric brakes). At the same time, my truck weighs around 5500lb loaded. I can do a 6% grade at 90km/h while towing. The truck it's self handles the weight well. It is hard on the motor though, no question about it.

As roscoFJ73 said, add a auxiliary transmission cooler also. Run it in series with the radiator transmission cooler. Also, when you drive, try to keep the transmission in lock-up as much as possible. Tow with the overdrive turned off. And leave the ECT button in the 'normal' position (shifts torque converter into lock-up at lower speeds). When the torque converter is in lock-up, the transmission will make way less heat. These transmission lock-up in both 3rd and 4th gears thankfully. Much better than the A440 series.

Once you've intercooled, run as much boost as you can. I've got mine tuned up to 20psi AFTER the intercooler now. Could be a couple of psi higher before the intercooler. The more air, the happier these motors are. This might seem scary high, but you should know that the little CT20 has the same shaft and bushing size as the much larger CT26. So really, it's pretty over built. I've been running mine at these high pressures for years now with no issues. Some of the Supra's had a version of these turbos that were ceramic; they broke apart around 19psi. An upgrade for them was to switch to the steel version from our motors; then they could boost over 20psi safely. The CT20 is actually a little big for our motors; thus well suited to making more power.

Tuning for high power is a bit tricky, as the ECU has a fuel cut around 14.7psi. You have to trick the sensor into thinking the boost is lower than it is. Once you've tuned to the higher boost though, the power difference is massive. Stock these motors put about 45hp to the rear wheels. Mine is putting down over 100hp now. Probably around 140hp or more at the flywheel. This is the limit of the 10mm injection pump.

Here is a little blurb I wrote a while back in another thread on tuning these motors:

"
All right, here are a few points on tuning the 2LTE.

Before turning up fuel on a 2LTE, I think there are a few prerequisites. You should have the cooling system in top notch condition, larger exhaust, a good intercooler, boost gauge and a pyrometer.

You will need a manual boost controller ( Voodoo V MBC Black w/ Ceramic Ball Manual Turbo Boost Controller Made in USA | eBay ) installed on your turbo, and if you want to go over 14psi (which I do recommend), you will need a Pneumatic speed control valve (ASC-8 1/4" BSPT Pneumatic Air Flow Speed Control Throttle Valve CLEARANCE!! | eBay). The point of this valve is to bleed the air from the Boost Sensor in a very controlled manner (lower the boost curve).

The reason an intercooler is the key to more power, is when the turbo boost pressure is increased beyond a certain point, it creates a huge amount of extra heat. This means higher EGTs and less dense air going into the motor (fewer oxygen atoms). Once an intercooler is installed, it solves this problem. Now you have dense air, and lots of it (lots of oxygen).

The boost can be turned up a lot. I run 20psi max after the intercooler. This extra pressure has not worn my turbo in any discernible way over the past years.

Having a lot of boost, with cool air, means there is a lot of head room for safely adding more fuel and making more power. I've maxed out my pump and it seems a good match for the boost I'm running (EGT wise).

Turning up the boost is simple, you just need any ebay manual boost controller. It goes on the boost line to the waste gate and increases the pressure at which the waste gate opens. Note it also takes a given amount of exhaust energy to drive the turbine to generate boost. You may think you've reached the boost limit of your turbo, but from what I've found, adding more fuel will solve this problem.

Now adding fuel part is a little more tricky. First thing is dealing with the computer over boost fuel cut. This is not a sharp cut off. I've found it is a bit more of a progressive thing. Before the over boost light comes on, the computer is already limiting the fuel when the boost gets high. Seems to start happening around 13-14psi or so.

The way to deal with this is the bleed valve that pradocruzer came up with. (Reducing 2lte egt's) It works really well, in that it shifts the whole boost curve down proportionally. So the idea is to trick the computer into thinking it is seeing a normal boost curve, where really you are running almost double the factory boost. The bleed valve just t's into the boost line to the boost sensor. It allows a certain amount of air leakage to reduce the pressure. It needs to be mounted after the little filter thing (which limits air flow a bit also). Tuning this valve is tricky. A 1/4 turn makes a difference. You want to be as high as possible before the computer starts limiting fuel. Only way to really tell is by seat of pants difference. Note, there is a product from a company called 'TurboSmart' called a pneumatic Fuel Cut Defender (FCD). DO NOT use this, because it leaves your boost curve as it is, and then abruptly clamps the boost at the maximum that you've set. This is impossible to tune to, as the computer will not add more fuel as the actual boost continues to rise past the clamp point.

Once that is sorted out, you can progress to turning up the fuel at the injection pump. It is done on top of the spill control valve (solenoid sticking up from the pump head). (see picture below - for a 1KZTE pump, but it's the same for the 2LTE) There is a little cap there that has to be removed. Underneath is a lock nut and hex adjust screw. Mark and take a picture of the factory setting. Then release the lock nut, and turn the screw in a 1/4 turn at a time. DO NOT turn it in more than 3/4 turn, or the engine will go into run-away! (I experienced this at one full turn, and it is scary!). Run-away doesn't happen at idle, it only happens when the engine speed is increased by throttle, and then it revs really high and does not come down. So once you've adjusted the screw, rev your engine while not driving to make sure this doesn't happen. If it does happen, you need to turn the screw back out while the engine is revving like crazy. It sucks, trust me. I've learned that as you get close to the run-away situation, what you will notice is that when you rev the motor the motor will take longer to slow down when the throttle is realeased. This is a sign you are getting close to run-away. So turn the fuel down a bit, and rev the motor again checking that it returns to idle quickly as normal.

Anyhow, 3/4 turn adds at least 30-50% more power. It's crazy. The extra fuel will likely increase the boost pressure, as more work will be done at the turbo with more exhaust gasses. So you'll have to go back and re-adjust the manual boost controller and air bleed valve accordingly.

It took me a couple weeks of fiddling to get the perfect tune. Even with maximum fuel, I still run EGT's that are about 200F LESS than they were when the truck was stock!! All because of the extra boost and cold air.

If you've had a pyro on for a while, you will know that you hit the highest EGT's when under sustained heavy load in hot ambient temps. So when you adjust your fueling, make sure you are tuning for safe EGT's under the worst circumstances. Around town and with normal highway driving my EGT's are pretty low, but under worst case conditions (towing up big hills in summer for example), they EGT's can end up much higher. My probe is post turbo, and worst case is 1000F. Normally I can never get it that high, and it maxes out closer to 800F. If your probe is pre turbo, shoot for 1200F worst case. With my tune, I never see black smoke at full boost. I can get black smoke before the turbo spools if I floor it, but I can control that with the right foot. I don't really floor it until the turbo has spooled up.

Really makes the motor fun. When I add the methanol too and the weather is cold, the truck rips pretty good!

These trucks make about 35-45 rear wheel hp when stock. Mine is making about 100 rear wheel hp right now (with meth/water on). Really transforms the truck. Doesn't seem like much, but it is about the same that my friends mildly tuned 1HDT is putting down to the wheels!! Not bad at all.
"


pumpadjustmentju4-jpg.86604
 
In addition to the above, I recommend running at least a 15W40 engine oil (I've had good luck with Shell Rotella dino oil). In OZ they run up to a 20w50 even in extreme temperatures. I also recommend you do a complete flush of your auto trans if you have not in a while. I've had excellent luck with Valvoline Dex/Merc. I do a flush every couple of years to be safe. I recommend putting synthetic gear oil in the transfer case and rear diff. These are areas that will see a lot of power loss and heat while towing. Also, install an electric brake controller if you have not already. Go for as large a front mount intercooler as you can fit. Also, use a proper tow hitch that connects to the frame as well as the bumper. The bumper one is not rated for the sort of weight you're getting into.
 
with the digger on the back (2.5T) up a steep hill I can maintain 50-60km/hr in third on the auto sitting at 3,000RPM and up the longest hill near me- about 5 mins to get up and 10% gradient- I see just on 95deg C
This is really thrashing the a$# of the wagon, you can really feel it straining- last time I drove for 6 hrs like this through rolling country my power steering fluid boiled out of the reservoir!?(not sure why maybe overfill?)
EGT never goes over 600 deg pre turbo and the transcooler is only a little hot to touch but not roasting
I do alot of towing with this- car trailers etc- and its not to bad, on the flat 95km/hr is easy to maintain

As a comparison my brothers ZD30 2007 nissan patrol that is chipped , FMIC ,3"exhaust and running 20psi VVturbo can only hold 65-70km/hr up the same hill and is a lot quieter so it doesnt sound like its going to blow up
 
with the digger on the back (2.5T) up a steep hill I can maintain 50-60km/hr in third on the auto sitting at 3,000RPM and up the longest hill near me- about 5 mins to get up and 10% gradient- I see just on 95deg C
This is really thrashing the a$# of the wagon, you can really feel it straining- last time I drove for 6 hrs like this through rolling country my power steering fluid boiled out of the reservoir!?(not sure why maybe overfill?)
EGT never goes over 600 deg pre turbo and the transcooler is only a little hot to touch but not roasting
I do alot of towing with this- car trailers etc- and its not to bad, on the flat 95km/hr is easy to maintain

As a comparison my brothers ZD30 2007 nissan patrol that is chipped , FMIC ,3"exhaust and running 20psi VVturbo can only hold 65-70km/hr up the same hill and is a lot quieter so it doesnt sound like its going to blow up

Yours has a 1KZTE right? Sounds like it does really well.
 
yep 1kzte, one thing to note, when towing my oil consumption goes up a bit to, im putting about a litre of oil in it every 1200km
doesnt smoke and i got no leaks so maybe rings are a little sad and the extra boost blows the smoke away ha ha
 
Cheers! ill run over the right up once i have the intercooler piped in and when its time to tune it then. i had originally thought id just stick to 14lb boost and try that, or am i really worth taking the next step with boost to about 16lb and fuel tuning for this?

I hadn't put a trans cooler in so will look into that also as i want to work through a lot of the preventative mods.

Looking at the boat info sheets the approx tow weight on what i normally tow happily is 390kg's/860lbs (still drops a touch on the hills but nothing like what i had with the bigger boat) and the boat I'm trying to tow now is roughly 740kgs/1631lbs (this is the new model spec sheet, but i don't see it changing much between the older boat model i'm towing) + gear etc. so should be under what your working with GTSSportCoupe
 
The power difference that comes with around 16-17psi is completely worth it. If you're intercooled, definitely go for it. From 17 to 20 there is not nearly as big of a gain. High boost does not hurt these motors; it's high EGT's and high coolant temps that kill them.

That is a very reasonable weight to be towing. Once you're tuned up a bit I think you'll barely notice the weight. Especially as boats don't present as much aerodynamic drag as a camper trailer would.
 
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