Advice Needed! (1 Viewer)

[quadrunner91]

Hello mud,

I've got a sloppy front axle and I'm looking for a second opinion.

Backstory:
I did the taco eloc swap into the front axle of my '85 pickup this spring. I had a local shop install the 4.88s and did the rest with my father. All was well until I lost a rear u-joint a few weeks ago and tried to use front-wheel-drive to get home. I made it a few miles before the gear noise and sloppy shifts convinced me to pull over.

My roadside inspection revealed the diff was quite warm for how far I'd gone, and there was a "lot" of slop at the pinon.

I stopped by the shop that bench built my differential and they said that amount of slop was totally normal for a front axle, and it's probably coming from my hubs. (SR5 truck and someone put aftermarket hubs on at some point)
*End of backstory

Here are two videos I showed the shop. 2 new photos by quadrunner91 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoqYTzMM31FPag9d8

Here is another video of the noise @25mph, I didn't show this to the shop due to the backstory above. New video by quadrunner91 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/1UVGxrENDQAFgNYJ9

You can hear the noise as I apply throttle and let off.

*Again the rear drive shaft is completely disconnected and I'm not running on dry asphalt in 4WD.*

Thanks for reading.

I'm just wanting another opinion before I drop $180 or whatever on a set of OEM hubs...

 

[gnob]

Lockouts cannot make noise.
Hard to tell from the vid but it sounds loud.
Does the pinion have any up/down or in/out slop?

 

[quadrunner91]

Lockouts cannot make noise.
Hard to tell from the vid but it sounds loud.
Does the pinion have any up/down or in/out slop?

No, the pinion doesn't have any other slop.

I know the video isn't great. It's the kind of noise you feel throughout the truck but can only hear when you stick your head out the window. They offered to have their mechanic take a look at it in the morning, so I left it with them.

On the phone this morning they said

”its got about an 1/8th of a rotation from start to stop and he [the mechanic] says that's pretty much normal for a front diff"

and on a later call (again this is their counter guy)

"he said that's pretty much normal he said if you wanna pull it out bring a locking hub and an axle with ya and he said maybe we can kinda 'splain it to you a little more"

I get the impression I've taken up enough of their time at this point.

 

[gnob]

Get someone to give you a hand and run it on jack stands.
Ill try to get you a vid of my front axle "play" this afternoon.

 

[quadrunner91]

Thanks gnob,

I'll take another look at it tonight when I get off work. Maybe I can get a better video of the noise too.

 

[ferg]

try this. Remove either drain or fill plug. Use something to hold the ring gear firm and then check for pinion play/slop.

 

[gnob]

Here is a pic and vid. Hubs locked diff not.

New video by Aric Genaw

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[toyotaboy80]

Id say your carrier bearings and or backlash isnt set up properly. And possibly even your pinion bearing depth.

On a fresh-ish third member, properly set up, It should take atleast 1.75 ft pounds of force to get the pinion flange to rotate. That is 12" from the center line. So roughly speaking, grabbing the flange that is 4" total diam or 2" from the centerline should take 5lbs of force or 10.5lbs. That is the bearing preload. Not including the seal drag, and weight of the axle shafts. Your video looks like the pinion is loose/flopping in the wind. Hard to say from a video, but the preload doesnt look right.

If you gently grab the pinion and turn it and if the carrier preload is tight enough, you should be able to get a backlash feel. The pinion should move like.... 1/16th of an inch. Maybe less. Depends how tight they went on backlash. Probably not any more on a fresh gear set and build.

As ferg says, you could try and devise a way to hold the ring from turning to get that backlash feel, but the carrier should be tight enough to hold itself for a prelim backlash check.

Turning the pinion the way you and gnob show is checking total play from pinion to ring to spider to shaft to hub. Yours looks excessive, but Im inclined to say your excessiveness comes from an improperly set up r&p becauase you also have differential noise. To me that means either the gear depth isnt right, the backlash isnt right, or the bearing preloads arent right.

 

[quadrunner91]

Thanks @gnob & @toyotaboy80

I'm definitely going to pull it apart soon and get some answers.

However, I'll probably wait until my FJ62 is rolling again. It's half way through a rear axle rebuild/LSD upgrade. I discovered a rusty shaft, and a replacement should be here next week.

One project at a time....

 

[FrankTorres]

I've had spindle bushings go dry and make an awful noise.

I'm sure you will figure it out once everything is apart.

Good luck

 

[Rattlewagon]

silly question... but it does have fluid in it yes?

I think when the shop said if coming from the hubs, they meant the wheel hubs, not the lockouts. If your wheel bearings are good the sound must be coming from the 3rd.

 

[aztoyman]

toyotagearinstalls.com has TONS of information and pics on setting up Toyota differentials. He's very good about responding to questions as well.

 

[toyotaboy80]

toyotagearinstalls.com has TONS of information and pics on setting up Toyota differentials. He's very good about responding to questions as well.

100%. You need a fair amount of specialty tools and knowledge to set up gears. Ken(aka gearinstalls) puts it on the web for free. I have a red seal(or masters?) In theory on gear installs just reading his links. I set my own diffs up purely on interpretation of his links with the necessary tools and theyre perfect. If you dont have an inch pound beam torque wrench, you're absolutely not coming near any gear set I am setting up. If youre not capable of seeing a .001" pinion depth change, youre out. If you're not willing to commit 5+ hours to a gear install, then youre too impatient. My first third must have been an 10 hour job until finished paint. Bottom line if not myself (knowing how anal I am) I wouldnt let anyone other than Ken@gearinstalls set my diff up...simply because he indirectly taught me.

In a production shop, a proper gear install simply cant pay for how much time it takes to do a bare minimum factory OEM quality job.

 

[Dedtruk]

toyotagearinstalls.com has TONS of information and pics on setting up Toyota differentials. He's very good about responding to questions as well.

This guy?

Toyota Gear Install Harrop - http://www.gearinstalls.com/

 

[aztoyman]

Yep. That's him. Ken Fransisco. Good guy.

 

[quadrunner91]

Hey guys.

Thanks for that resource, I bet it'll come in handy in the future!

@Rattlewagon Yeah, it had oil. Fresh new oil this spring, really shiny metallic oil when I dropped it.

Edit: Sorry, the rest of this post was quite “rant-ish” and not really relevant to the topic at hand.

The source of the noise has been found and fixed. A bearing spun on the inner case and wreaked havoc on the other bearings. I was able to source a new case from triplecreations on eBay for a good price. They’re one of the cheapest sellers I’ve found if you can wait a week or two. Anyway, I was lazy and just ordered a complete kit from eBay with all the new bearings, crush sleeve, etc.

I still haven’t figured out where all the slop at the pinion was coming from. It’s possible that it’ll still be there when I get it reassembled. Hopefully it’s not an issue.

That’s probably a wrap for this thread. The aforementioned shop cut me a deal when they set up the diff this time, so everything worked out well for me.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Here’s a photo with the worst of the damage.