Well, I've had my 2000 LC going on 14 months now. I've put 35,000 miles on it and loved each and every mile. However, I'm looking at what maintenance and repairs it needs(Manifolds, Shocks, timing belt soon) and am beginning to think I might rather trade it on an 03 or 04 cruiser instead. I know I would get the 5-speed trans and nav, but what other things would I gain? Would it be stupid to get a newer one? Am I better off to just fix the one I have? Lots of decisions to make....
Advantages of 2003+??
- Thread starter ictcruiser
- Start date
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5 speed - better gas mileage.
04 has a back up camera and bluetooth.
06 has the new engine (272 hp) and possible AHC suspension.
I am holding out for an 06 one day, about 4 years from now.
uzj100
04 has a back up camera and bluetooth.
06 has the new engine (272 hp) and possible AHC suspension.
I am holding out for an 06 one day, about 4 years from now.
uzj100
- Thread starter
- #3
Interesting about the gas mileage, I had thought that they were roughly the same...maybe 1-2mpg difference?
Are the 2003+ manifolds subject to the same warping as the earlier 100s? I don't even mind so much that I need to replace the manifolds, but it pisses me off to no end that I can't find a decent quality alternative the obviously flawed Toyota part. I asked my local Toyota dealer if I replaced them would that fix it....he responded with, "yes, until the new ones warp too". I would have thought they would improve the part, but oh, well.
Are the 2003+ manifolds subject to the same warping as the earlier 100s? I don't even mind so much that I need to replace the manifolds, but it pisses me off to no end that I can't find a decent quality alternative the obviously flawed Toyota part. I asked my local Toyota dealer if I replaced them would that fix it....he responded with, "yes, until the new ones warp too". I would have thought they would improve the part, but oh, well.
Yes, 1 to 2 mpg better but every little bit helps at this mpg level. Not sure on the manifolds.
uzj100
uzj100
Newer is always nicer but you gotta pay...(to quote my dad) I think you need to do the math, for me the $$$$$$ would make the difference and I like getting cars a little cheaper so that I can do some custom work to them. Oh and Nav is a $1500 installed upgrade at Circuit City. With the Eclipse double din system. (they make the toyota nav unit BTW) the 1-2mpg difference could help though...
The 04 has an adjustable lumbar support for the passenger if that is a factor for you.
Real life mileage seems varied. I expected it to be better, but test drive reports tend to show otherwise. It seems some of the best mpgs have been pre-2003. Theoretically, the 5 speed should be better, though more gears makes for a more responsive feel while driving about. Maybe that is why the real mileage tends to be less than the 4 speed - its too easy to "enjoy" the responsiveness.
Real life mileage seems varied. I expected it to be better, but test drive reports tend to show otherwise. It seems some of the best mpgs have been pre-2003. Theoretically, the 5 speed should be better, though more gears makes for a more responsive feel while driving about. Maybe that is why the real mileage tends to be less than the 4 speed - its too easy to "enjoy" the responsiveness.
hoser
SILVER Star
From Slee's site:
2003
Exterior
* The front bumper and radiator grille design was changed.
changed
* The rear back door name plate molding was changed
* Running board design was changed
* The roof rack was added as optional equipment
* The rear turn-signal lights was changed from amber to clear
* The roof-rail has been adopted as optional equipment.
* 275/65R17 tires with 17x8JJ-60 wheels are provided as standard equipment.
* 275/60R18 tires with 18x8JJ-60 wheels are provided as optional equipment.
* Wheels were redesigned
Interior
* The center cluster of the dashboard was changed
* The combination meter design was changed
* Added the new steering wheel with controls on the center pad
* The pillar handles and coat hook was changed for the vehicles with side curtain airbags
* The screen of the multi display was changed to a touch screen
* A voice recognition system was added to the GPS system
* Side and curtain shield airbags were adopted as optional equipment
* Drive and passenger airbag system was changed to a dual-stage unit.
* An RSAS (Rear Seat Audio System) was added as standard equipment.
* Power tilt and telescoping features added to the steering column
Drivetrain
* Engine Output increased to 235hp
* Changed to a drive by wire with an accelerator position sensor on the accelerator pedal
* An A750F 5 speed automatic transmission was added
* Rack and pinion steering was changed to Variable Gear.
* The throttle position sensor was changed to a no-contact unit.
* Charcoal canister capacity increased and moved to above the spare tire.
* Shift pattern for transmission was changed to a gate type.
* The front and rear driveshafts were updated with stronger U-joints and larger tubes
* Propeller Tube Diameter ’03 Model (A750F) ’02 Model (A343F)
Front 65.0 mm (2.6 in.) 54.0 mm (2.1 in.)
Rear 75.0 mm (3.0 in.) 65.0 mm (2.6 in.)
* The differential gears were changed to a 4.1 ratio.
* The tow hitch was offered as optional equipment
* The rear cross member was changed to accept a towing hitch that can be bolted to the rear cross member.
* Catalytic converters were changed
* Radiator fin pitch was changed for better cooling
* Alternator was changed to a high output segment conductor type
* Fuel cutoff switch when airbags are deployed was added
* Crank Hold Feature was added. This feature will keep the starter engaged, once the ignition switch is turned to the START position without having to keep the key in the START position.
2004
Interior
* Added power lumber support for the passenger seat.
* A Bluetooth hands-free function was added to the multi function display
* The backup camera system was added as an option.
Exterior
* The color of the windshield and front door glass has been changed from bronze to green.
* The privacy glass for the rear door, rear door quarter, quarter, and back door has been changed to dark-gray tempered glass.
Drivetrain
* SLLC (Super Long Life Coolant) accepted and service interval increased. The color of this coolant is pink and the initial change interval is 100 000 miles, and every 50 000 miles thereafter. Previous interval was every 30 000 miles or 2 years, whichever comes first. The coolant comes pre-mixed and does not require diluting.
* The transmission dipstick was removed. The fill position is now checked at the overflow plug.
* ATF-W (Automatic Transmission Fluid) is now specified instead of the ATF-T-IV. The ATF WS is not interchangeable with other types of ATF (ATF type T-IV, or D-II).
2003
Exterior
* The front bumper and radiator grille design was changed.
changed
* The rear back door name plate molding was changed
* Running board design was changed
* The roof rack was added as optional equipment
* The rear turn-signal lights was changed from amber to clear
* The roof-rail has been adopted as optional equipment.
* 275/65R17 tires with 17x8JJ-60 wheels are provided as standard equipment.
* 275/60R18 tires with 18x8JJ-60 wheels are provided as optional equipment.
* Wheels were redesigned
Interior
* The center cluster of the dashboard was changed
* The combination meter design was changed
* Added the new steering wheel with controls on the center pad
* The pillar handles and coat hook was changed for the vehicles with side curtain airbags
* The screen of the multi display was changed to a touch screen
* A voice recognition system was added to the GPS system
* Side and curtain shield airbags were adopted as optional equipment
* Drive and passenger airbag system was changed to a dual-stage unit.
* An RSAS (Rear Seat Audio System) was added as standard equipment.
* Power tilt and telescoping features added to the steering column
Drivetrain
* Engine Output increased to 235hp
* Changed to a drive by wire with an accelerator position sensor on the accelerator pedal
* An A750F 5 speed automatic transmission was added
* Rack and pinion steering was changed to Variable Gear.
* The throttle position sensor was changed to a no-contact unit.
* Charcoal canister capacity increased and moved to above the spare tire.
* Shift pattern for transmission was changed to a gate type.
* The front and rear driveshafts were updated with stronger U-joints and larger tubes
* Propeller Tube Diameter ’03 Model (A750F) ’02 Model (A343F)
Front 65.0 mm (2.6 in.) 54.0 mm (2.1 in.)
Rear 75.0 mm (3.0 in.) 65.0 mm (2.6 in.)
* The differential gears were changed to a 4.1 ratio.
* The tow hitch was offered as optional equipment
* The rear cross member was changed to accept a towing hitch that can be bolted to the rear cross member.
* Catalytic converters were changed
* Radiator fin pitch was changed for better cooling
* Alternator was changed to a high output segment conductor type
* Fuel cutoff switch when airbags are deployed was added
* Crank Hold Feature was added. This feature will keep the starter engaged, once the ignition switch is turned to the START position without having to keep the key in the START position.
2004
Interior
* Added power lumber support for the passenger seat.
* A Bluetooth hands-free function was added to the multi function display
* The backup camera system was added as an option.
Exterior
* The color of the windshield and front door glass has been changed from bronze to green.
* The privacy glass for the rear door, rear door quarter, quarter, and back door has been changed to dark-gray tempered glass.
Drivetrain
* SLLC (Super Long Life Coolant) accepted and service interval increased. The color of this coolant is pink and the initial change interval is 100 000 miles, and every 50 000 miles thereafter. Previous interval was every 30 000 miles or 2 years, whichever comes first. The coolant comes pre-mixed and does not require diluting.
* The transmission dipstick was removed. The fill position is now checked at the overflow plug.
* ATF-W (Automatic Transmission Fluid) is now specified instead of the ATF-T-IV. The ATF WS is not interchangeable with other types of ATF (ATF type T-IV, or D-II).
MPG- comparison. I have a 99 LC that is in great shape 60K miles on it. I get 15 mpg on the LC. I also have a 2004 4runner V8 and I get 17.5 mpg same driving. The 4runner has the same 5 speed and the same engine as the 2004 LC, but the 4runner weighs around 600+ lbs less then the LC. I would think the real world difference between a 99 LC and 2004 LC would be maybe 1 mpg. I don't think you can use mpg to justify the trade. Also you may save money on the new 2004 LC because of the high gas prices but you are going to lose money on the old LC for the same reason. I would only do the upgrade if you have a lot of repairs that have to be done to your old LC. New heads, starter problem, all brakes need to be repaired, like you said it is time for the timing belt and water pump and you need new tires. JMHO
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
I believe the 5spd in the 4runner V8 uses aluminum planetary gears (saves 200 lbs) vs steel in the LC. LX weighs maybe 200 lbs more than the LC. I get 14.5-5 mpg (1/2 city driving, light foot, A/C on low) running 87 octane, but 17 mpg running 91 (same driving). Since the price difference of 20 cents/gal is about a 7% increase while the fuel economy increase is over 15%, it's a no-brainer.
One advantage of the 5spd over the 4spd is the 1st gear is lower while the diffs are higher (4.1 vs 4.3). This means if you put on larger tires (say the equivalent of 32-33"), you can swap in OEM 4.3 gears to get a 5% reduction in gearing in both low/high to achieve near-stock gearing again.
One advantage of the 5spd over the 4spd is the 1st gear is lower while the diffs are higher (4.1 vs 4.3). This means if you put on larger tires (say the equivalent of 32-33"), you can swap in OEM 4.3 gears to get a 5% reduction in gearing in both low/high to achieve near-stock gearing again.
Jim_Chow said:
Jim -
This is interesting. I was thinking about just getting a Tru-Speed and take the (slight) power hit, though I'm not sure how the Tru-Speed affects the trip and nav computer(s). In your opinion, is this worth the trouble of swapping nearly new R&Ps with lots of life left in them, or just do the Tru-Speed?
Although, if I ever plan on lockers (still not sure at this point), I suppose it would be easy enough to swap them in once the thirds are pulled for the locker install...
Thanks,
Jim_Chow said:
Jim please site your source for this information. Doesn't make sense?? Not in a mass produced transmission. If Toyota was going to make a transmission lighter they would use the aluminum gears in the LC to make it lighter.
SWUtah said:
I am not sure of the offial site but I have heard that the 4Runner tranny is lighter.
I do disagree with you SWUtah, LC are overbuilt period. They dont worry about weight over quality and dependability.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
SWUtah said:
not sure what their sources are, but here are a few:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/toyota/4runner_2003/page2.asp
http://www.toyoland.com/trucks/4runner.html
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/models/2003/4runner/news1/
The LC is built for max. durability (cost/weight/fuel economy aren't the driving factors).
89s rule said:
I checked it out and the 5 speed uses aluminum front planetary gears and it cuts weight in half. But you would assume it is used in all of the 5 speed truck transmissions which would include the LC/LX, do you have any information that states that the LC/LX 5 speed does not use aluminum front planetary gears? In my search I could not find anything that talks about the LC/LX transmission being different or even talks about the LC/LX transmission. This could be because the LC/LX is such a low volume vehicle here in the USA?
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Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
SWUtah said:
Wasn't the LC's 5spd auto used in the 100TD in Oz for some time before we got it in '03? Can anyone Down Under comment on that? If you check tundrasolutions, the pre '03 5spd(?) trannies for tundras and sequoias had planetary gear failure problems in overdrive (exacerbated by towing). The only LC tranny problems I can recall on this forum seemed to be pre '01.
About LC volume, in the May '06 issue of LC mag, there's a tour of the Yoshiwara plant where the LX470/LC100/LC79 pickup are assembled (BTW, it says Toyota and Araco make them together [at least at that plant!]). It also gives export figures. They produce about 580 units/day (both 100's and 70's). About 17K LC 100's/LX's are sold in all of the Americas, 18K units exported to Oz, 39K units exported to the Middle East (largest customer base, but not per capita). So US-sales is a drop in the bucket worldwide.
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Jim_Chow said:
I hear what your saying Jim but 80K units does not justify running a plantary gear change in 80K transmission units of a mass produced transmission that you are using in the 4runner/GX/Prado/Tundra trucks? It would cost a shat load to make this change.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Well, 90K units per year times 5 yrs is 450K units for '03-'07. Plus only one or a few gears in the tranny are different, not the entire tranny. The 4runner/hilux Surf sells maybe 100K units/year here over a 7 year model cycle=700K units (sales are poor in Japan since the base Prado is only $1K more, so most opt for the Prado). This body style is only sold in Japan/N.America, and toyota had to design/fab/test an entire new body for the estimated 700K units over the model cycle, so I don't see how using a few steel planetary gears only in the 100 would be considered economically unviable for toyota, especially in their cost/weight/fuel economy-doesn't-matter flagship.
Jim_Chow said:
Weigh is always important for better mpg. You have any information that states Toyota is using steel in the LC/LX versus aluminum?
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
SWUtah said:
Nope, no info. I figure that if anything other than steel is used, it usually stands out and catches the press' attention. Also, by the nature of the articles saying it saves 200 lbs implies that toyota's other 5spd trannies use steel gears. It would be the sub contractor (Aisin seki?) that would provide the trannies/gears to Toyota. Somewhere, there must be some kind of code (different from the tranny model number) that distinguishes it.
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Jim_Chow said:
Why don't you take one for MUD and take your transmission apart and check it out
