A rafting we will go, Sycamore
- Thread starter SOAZtim
- Start date
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Thank you, and thanks again. I was one of those who "discovered" Four Peaks Road in the late '70s and early"80s. I told everybody, as did all of the others at the time. I regret talking about it, as if such a beautiful, great area could really be kept secret.
Since the area became popular, the mountain has been burned out, the forest killed, and the desert areas leading to it have been littered beyond recognition. It is a shame on all of us.
I have spent many of my most memorable hours on that mountain. I wandered aimlessly on deer trails all over the forest there. I viewed the valleys below with binoculars and cameras. I remember one day when the snow was melting. There were springs every few feet pouring out of the ground. The water was ice cold and tasted wonderful! I walked for miles that day, enjoying every minute.
On another day, I found a lady mountain lion and her kittens. She didn't like me very much! But she was a beautiful lady, and her kids were cute. I was a couple of miles away from my car when I saw her. I headed back to the car when I saw her, as I didn't want to spook her. She followed me all the way. I walked down canyon slopes to reach the main trail. She was never more than 75 feet away, yet I had to look closely to see her. She was such a beautiful creature. Yet she blended so well into the background that I often could not see her even though I knew exactly where she was all of the time. I am fond of cats in general, and the mountain lion is our most beautiful example of the kind. This one was awesome. She was a beautiful critter and a great mom! It was a priviledge to meet her.
This area will need many years of rehab to be the place that it once was. I thank you for helping.
Since the area became popular, the mountain has been burned out, the forest killed, and the desert areas leading to it have been littered beyond recognition. It is a shame on all of us.
I have spent many of my most memorable hours on that mountain. I wandered aimlessly on deer trails all over the forest there. I viewed the valleys below with binoculars and cameras. I remember one day when the snow was melting. There were springs every few feet pouring out of the ground. The water was ice cold and tasted wonderful! I walked for miles that day, enjoying every minute.
On another day, I found a lady mountain lion and her kittens. She didn't like me very much! But she was a beautiful lady, and her kids were cute. I was a couple of miles away from my car when I saw her. I headed back to the car when I saw her, as I didn't want to spook her. She followed me all the way. I walked down canyon slopes to reach the main trail. She was never more than 75 feet away, yet I had to look closely to see her. She was such a beautiful creature. Yet she blended so well into the background that I often could not see her even though I knew exactly where she was all of the time. I am fond of cats in general, and the mountain lion is our most beautiful example of the kind. This one was awesome. She was a beautiful critter and a great mom! It was a priviledge to meet her.
This area will need many years of rehab to be the place that it once was. I thank you for helping.
- Thread starter
- #6
We'll just have to keep working on it until people start to get the message. It could take years or decades!
That area can be amazing, but right now it needs to go back to how it was...
It is a shame, we can only organize trail cleanups and try to the best of our abilities to educate OHV users through forums and on the trail. Otherwise all these places will be closed.
What an awesome story about the lion and her cubs, I've always wanted to meet one up close, not too close but like you said have the priviledge to view such a magnificent animal. thank you for sharing!!
It really pisses me off that this area looks like this. It looks more like the landfill at Gilbert road than the Tonto Forest. After visiting this area for the first time on Tuesday I am very tempted to write the forest service and voice my opinion to have this area shut down. This is a prime example of why we lose our rights to use public lands to enjoy our 4x4's. Please do not write me to have a cleanup campaign as I am a firm believer in people being held responsible for their actions abuse it and lose it!!!
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The problem is that those of us who ARE responsible for their actions, and treat the areas with respect ALSO lose the rights to use public lands when they are shut down according to your logic.
It's up to all of us to demonstrate responsible land use practices, in order to establish a difference between a cognicent user who wants to continue to enjoy public lands - for themselves and their children, and those who are the 2% minority who cause the type of tragedy that we all witnessed at 4 peaks. If there is not accountable people getting together to make a differnece as we all did for 4 peaks, ALL users will be labeled under the same category as the misfits who have reduced 4peaks, and other OHV areas to the condition that they currently are!
- Thread starter
- #10
Good post. Here are my thoughts.
I have gone through many stages in my life. I used to believe that everyone was responsible for their own trash. If I didn't make it I didn't pick it up.
That logic is sound in a logic sense, but it doesn't take into account reality. Now I'm a bit more of a realist.
People WILL litter, there are idiots, the EASY way out is to get upset or find a reason that its not your problem. Writing a letter is just complaining. Take matters into your own hands and do something about it. (keep it legal)
Do something about it. If you(not talking to YOU just saying whomever) and everyone else pick up trash others WILL follow. Hell, I've never been to a pickup or organized an event of any kind. I just said where I'll been when and started spreading the word. Hundreds showed up. Hundreds that just needed the slightest encouragement and organization and were happy to do it.
I don't care what the logic is anymore. From now on I'll just try and make a difference when I can. Even just one bag.
I don't expect to cure idiocy, but others will come around just like I did. Each time I fill a bag it helps and each time someone sees me it helps. Even if they don't care it will make a difference in their head. It just might make them think twice knowing that someone who cares might see them! People avoid most confrontations and to know that if someone see's you leaving trash might have a negative outcome will deter folks even just a little.
Now I need some help. I'm calling the FS again, but the burnt out trash is still there. I'm going up when I can, 4runner has a broken diff... :whoops:, but otherwise I want to go up and start removing that trash as I can.
Can anyone come with me to help?
This has been brought up before, but maybe it's time to do more than talk...
Maybe a neighborhood watch style approach? More than just adopting a trail. "Patrolling" it. I'm an optimist. I like to think the majority of wheelers are on the responsible side. And there's some group of us out on the trail every weekend. Sometimes we see the offenders. Sometimes we even see them in the act.
So what can we do? Talk to the offenders? If they're not too drunk, this could work. Simply inform them that the backcountry isn't a landfill, and there is no trash service. Do it in a nonconfrontational way. Just a public service announcement.
Whaddya'll think?
Maybe a neighborhood watch style approach? More than just adopting a trail. "Patrolling" it. I'm an optimist. I like to think the majority of wheelers are on the responsible side. And there's some group of us out on the trail every weekend. Sometimes we see the offenders. Sometimes we even see them in the act.
So what can we do? Talk to the offenders? If they're not too drunk, this could work. Simply inform them that the backcountry isn't a landfill, and there is no trash service. Do it in a nonconfrontational way. Just a public service announcement.
Whaddya'll think?
- Thread starter
- #12
I like that idea for anyone comfortable with it. If its me and my girl I won't walk up to a group of shooters that I see throwing trash. I feel like it puts her in danger and I'm alone in the confrontation.
I WOULD however approach some shooters or campers that don't look like "trouble" and mention "Man this place is getting trashed. It sure is sad. This place is going to get shut down if they keep trashing it. And then add in, I always like to take out at least one bag with me. Do you need a bag?"
Even then I think one needs to use some good judgement about who to approach and who not to...
You can change people minds just by filling a bag during a run. Others will follow.
Even just calling a plate # in would help. Even if nothing comes from it, do it. They may get a call from someone. You never know.
I'll add. Use license numbers and vehicle descriptions. When you see a site that looks freshly littered by the present occupants, make a phone call. The Ranger can inform the folks about the rules around here. Offer to help them clean up if it is appropriate.
In much of the country, open wild lands have been lost. Camping and other outdoor activities are limited to controlled areas, much like going to a park. People move to AZ with this concept in mind. They think that the cel phone will work, and someone will clean up after them. They just do not understand. Half of the biggest fire in AZ history was started by such a person. She was walking around in high heels in the wilderness, expecting her phone to work. When it failed, she started a signal fire that helped to burn out 450,000 acres of virgin forest and several towns.
We are blessed to have real wilderness within the range of a day trip from our homes. We have to remind people that the beautiful wilderness that we are blessed with is a place that can kill you for the simple sin of not thinking! There is no phone service, no call boxes, and no litter service. The wild animals are really wild, and they might hurt you. I have run across lions (2 different adults, plus kittens), several bears, wolves, rattlesnakes and many coyotes. This is not a zoo, nor is it a park! There is no safety net and you are truly on your own out there. That is why we call it the wilderness! It can kill the unprepared!
Newcomers to the state need to be made aware of these realities.
In much of the country, open wild lands have been lost. Camping and other outdoor activities are limited to controlled areas, much like going to a park. People move to AZ with this concept in mind. They think that the cel phone will work, and someone will clean up after them. They just do not understand. Half of the biggest fire in AZ history was started by such a person. She was walking around in high heels in the wilderness, expecting her phone to work. When it failed, she started a signal fire that helped to burn out 450,000 acres of virgin forest and several towns.
We are blessed to have real wilderness within the range of a day trip from our homes. We have to remind people that the beautiful wilderness that we are blessed with is a place that can kill you for the simple sin of not thinking! There is no phone service, no call boxes, and no litter service. The wild animals are really wild, and they might hurt you. I have run across lions (2 different adults, plus kittens), several bears, wolves, rattlesnakes and many coyotes. This is not a zoo, nor is it a park! There is no safety net and you are truly on your own out there. That is why we call it the wilderness! It can kill the unprepared!
Newcomers to the state need to be made aware of these realities.
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