70 Series - Please Explain Yourself! (1 Viewer)

[SteveJackson]

While 70 series are cool mostly because they are exotic in the US, the supply is only growing year by year, thus the values are destined to flat line or depreciate. 70 series are not collector status and probably never will be unless you have some real odd configuration or survivor and a 70 series collector buyer (unlikely). Most coming into US are hiding repairs and sellers are asking way to much for what you get. Time to take off the rose colored glasses.

Furthermore, the craftsman and quality of design of the 70 series is not one to allow these vehicle to last 50 years. The paint jobs are crap, they leak like screen windows, rust like crazy because of cheap steel and poor drainage, and are severely under powered like other cruisers.
Ask our Canadian friends to the north who have been importing 70 series 10 years longer than Americans - how has your 70 series depreciated since buying it?

Ten years in Canada definitely will cause a vehicle to depreciate. Typically because of deteriorating condition, not necessarily dilution of market. However, I don't agree that the price will generally drop over time, especially for the nicest trucks. Nice trucks become harder and harder to find, more rare, not less rare. I've sold a few trucks that have later sold for more. Very nice trucks will hold value in the US. And there actually are quite a few LC collectors picking up 70's. On the other hand, you don't have to be a collector to appreciate the greatness of the 70 series!

Anyway just my opinion.

To the OP, would be happy to talk 70's if there's anything I can help with: Land Cruisers Direct - Vehicle Inventory

 

[Collin80]

While 70 series are cool mostly because they are exotic in the US, the supply is only growing year by year, thus the values are destined to flat line or depreciate. 70 series are not collector status and probably never will be unless you have some real odd configuration or survivor and a 70 series collector buyer (unlikely). Most coming into US are hiding repairs and sellers are asking way to much for what you get. Time to take off the rose colored glasses.

Furthermore, the craftsman and quality of design of the 70 series is not one to allow these vehicle to last 50 years. The paint jobs are crap, they leak like screen windows, rust like crazy because of cheap steel and poor drainage, and are severely under powered like other cruisers.
Ask our Canadian friends to the north who have been importing 70 series 10 years longer than Americans - how has your 70 series depreciated since buying it?

I'm not an un-biased commenter here, owning a 70 myself, but I don't think value is tied to quantity. Look at the valuation on 40-series, for example. There are tons out there. Finding one is not difficult at all. Yet anything in usable shape commands at least $10,000. In my opinion, it's simply because they're seen as cool, and indeed, compared to a Jeep they're rare, but they're certainly not impossible to find. An even better example would be 110 Rovers or even newer Defenders. Again, not hard to find, and most are not in great shape, but they command crazy high prices... for what? The value is more about how the brand is perceived than what's actually available. There are tens of thousands of Picasso artworks out in the world, yet they remain incredibly valuable -- because Picasso is Picasso.

I would actually argue that 70 series are undervalued in the US because so few people actually know they exist. 90% of the people that ask me about mine have never seen one before, and most confuse it with a Land Rover. As the number of 70 series increases in the US and they gain a bigger following, their value should actually increase. Right now the pool of buyers is tiny, and knowledgeable, and discerning. Once that pool grows to include the Hamptons and Malibu Rover and G-wagon crowd, prices should increase.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

While 70 series are cool mostly because they are exotic in the US.


Not every exotic vehicle can reach the "cool" status.

 

[Collin80]

And for what it's worth to the OP, my unicorn is an HZJ77, with manual trans.

 

[1tontoy]

It's simple economics - supply and demand of vehicles and parts availability. Nothing more.
40 series market vs. 70 series market is apples to oranges.
But, let's keep circle jerking...

 

[Collin80]

It's simple economics - supply and demand of vehicles and parts availability. Nothing more.
40 series market vs. 70 series market is apples to oranges.
But, let's keep circle jerking...

Hey man, no need to get vulgar. Sorry to try and open up an interesting discussion about collector vehicles...

Supply and demand isn't the only determining factor. Why is Starbucks coffee $2 more expensive than Dunkin Donuts? It has nothing to do with availability, quality, or anything else tangible. It's all about consumer perception.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Every vehicle that I have owned in my adult life, staring with a Triumph in college and now the 77 Series, I bought because I liked the style or the uniqueness. Perhaps I'm an idiot but I don't recall ever buying a vehicle based solely on the perceived resale value at some point in the future. Do your research, buy the best example you can find and ENJOY
it.

 

[Bob Richards]

I bought a 70 over a 40 series becuase of the quality of the body, welded frame vs. rivited/bolted as well as the price. I was specifically looking at BJ42's and bought a BJ74 which came w/a lot of the same features but can be a daily driver and came from the factory w/heat and A/C above the features of the 40. Mine came w/a 13BT which is turbo charged and I drive it on i-95 at 75mph with no pressure... runs that speed at just under 3000 rpm.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

I spent the last 10 minutes trying to figure out what is vulgar about "soda jerk" and then I re-read post #25.

 

[OGBeno]

Another 70 series thread down the tubes.

Awesome.

 

[coldtaco]

basically, this is how to identify a 70
J-7 is the starting point
letters in front of the J refer to engine
numbers after the 7 refer to body style
engine types and body types has already been mentioned

 

[AndrewHadji]

Where in nc are you, join up on the clubhouse ONSC (Old North State Cruisers). I noticed that you didnt list the 1hz or a troopy. If you are close to RTP or raleigh, we could meet somewhere and you can take a look at the front half of the truck. The front half is mostly the same for all 70s of 1990 vintage.

 

[broth9640]

When it comes to price, anything can happen, however it's not that simple to point at supply and demand. Supply and demand are always a factor, but more so is the macro economy. For some if not most of us, these vehicles are not our daily drivers. They are liken to a second home and when the economy presses upward, so does the price of collector cars, airplanes,second homes, boats, and hobby vehicles. Supply would certainly play a role if the market was flooded today with 70 series vehicles, but anyone who has ever imported one can tell you how hard it is to really find good ones worth shipping here. As time presses on, the number of vehicles worthy of importation shrinks, competition increases and thus the price at auction has risen over the last 12-24 months (@ 1tontoy, Supply & Demand for ya!) So yes supply has shrunk and demand increased in the japan auction market. The US market has seen an increase in supply over the last 12 months, but it has also seen an equal increase in demand due to exposure and a gain in popularity. So far the forces have remained equal. In my opinion, the market here will continue to grow due to several factors. First is the new found exposure to such vehicles and second, people are tired of chasing rust. These 70 series while not perfect are a far cry from the rust buckets of the FJ40 era. These vehicles present an opportunity to own a Land Cruiser without the headaches that come with most 40 or 60 series Land Cruisers. Last but not least is perhaps the biggest factor of all, Diesel Power!! In the end we must remember, supply is not unlimited. Japan is not some garden that produces an infinite amount of 70 series diesel Land Cruisers. There may be a period where supply will out pace demand, but that will not last forever. Just go and try to find yourself a HZJ77 or an HZJ73, they have been slowly shipped away from Japan for the last ten years to Canada where they have met the hand of the PO hack jobs, Rust and collisions. They have also racked up another 10yrs worth of KMs on salty roads. MAYBE 10-12 of each model (HZJ) pass through auction a year that are legal and worthy of import. Probably a few more for the BJ74 and a lot more for the HDJ81 and HJ61. In my humble opinion in 15 yrs the supply for rust free 70 series Land Cruisers will not be able to meet demand in the US market. Not even close! The macro economy is going to play a far larger role in the value of 70 series vehicles over the next 15 yrs. But hey what the F$%k do I know? I got a degree in basket weaving, AKA beer drinking! The only thing I can see coming down in price is going to be rusty 70's and perhaps gasser 60's and 80's as guys swap for an 81 or a 61.

 

[broth9640]

Another 70 series thread down the tubes.

Awesome.

Haha

Has this forum ever been about tech? I think the last three tech questions I asked here were met with radio silence.

 

[AndrewHadji]

Another 70 series thread down the tubes.

Awesome.

You are a mod, bring on the ban hammer! or sandal hammer, or... whatever :-D

 

[OGBeno]

You are a mod, bring on the ban hammer! or sandal hammer, or... whatever :-D

I do love my sandals.

I'm not a banner. That's for other people to do.

Posts have been reported though.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Haha

Has this forum ever been about tech? I think the last three tech questions I asked here were met with radio silence.

NORDO

 

[NLScooby]

And for what it's worth to the OP, my unicorn is an HZJ77, with manual trans.

This reminds me of the M&M's commercial at Christmas....when Santa Claus and the M&M's bump into each other....
Wow - it does exist!

Awesome rig Collin80, I would love to get my hands on one of these!

basically, this is how to identify a 70
J-7 is the starting point
letters in front of the J refer to engine
numbers after the 7 refer to body style
engine types and body types has already been mentioned

Thanks Taco Man! I love a short-cut!

Where in nc are you, join up on the clubhouse ONSC (Old North State Cruisers). I noticed that you didnt list the 1hz or a troopy. If you are close to RTP or raleigh, we could meet somewhere and you can take a look at the front half of the truck. The front half is mostly the same for all 70s of 1990 vintage.

Thanks Andrew - I am in the Charlotte area. I attended a ONSC meeting in Charlotte a few weeks ago at a pub (boy what that a good pint of Guinness!). I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it! I really like the Troopy and now I've forgotten what a 1HZ is, but I think the HZJ77 would be perfect as I have kids and have had too many "fun" vehicles that I've made the mistake of not being able to fit the family in.....and then I find I don't drive it that much. I realize you can fit more people in a Troopy, but as someone who came out of the Child Safety Seat industry, I've seen too many crash tests to know I don't want my kids sitting sideways in a Troop carrier style seat!

I appreciate the banter and speculation about vehicle resale values, but I'm not worried about that. I've owned many vehicles and only a few that have actually increased in value. This will be an investment in fun and adventure....valuation be dammed! But I'm pretty sure I won't lose as much as buying any new vehicle! I also like vehicles that aren't all that common.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

@NLScooby
I appreciate the banter and speculation about vehicle resale values, but I'm not worried about that. I've owned many vehicles and only a few that have actually increased in value. This will be an investment in fun and adventure....valuation be dammed! But I'm pretty sure I won't lose as much as buying any new vehicle! I also like vehicles that aren't all that common.
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Please don't interject logic and common sense into an otherwise entertaining thread.

 

[AndrewHadji]

I realize you can fit more people in a Troopy, but as someone who came out of the Child Safety Seat industry, I've seen too many crash tests to know I don't want my kids sitting sideways in a Troop carrier style seat!

I think we all made it past childhood, im sure the lapbelts werent up to snuff either.... Hell my dad used to throw us in the back of his hzj75 pickup.... AND we got hit by a drunk driver one time