60 Head advice needed

[sj]

I took my 60 to a local toyota shop who has a good rep here. It hasn't been running that well lately and I am not sure what to do. It does burn oil and has almost 200k miles on it. He did a couple of test on the engine, first was a compression test, he said they all had compression from 150 to 155,158 range. He then said that there was a head gasket leak and that the valve guide seals are bad. He said to do this would be around $1500. He said that would include taking the head to a machine shop. I have been wanting to get my carb rebuilt and he said he would do that at the same time. So, all of this work for around 2k, ouch. He said other then that everything looked good.

My question is should I put $2k into it or should I use that money to put a 350 in. I don't mind driving slow, sometimes I think it would be nice to have more power but not that often.

If I do have this work done, is there anything else I should do?

I recently put a new p/s pump, water pump, and fan clutch it if that changes anything.

Sean

 

[reefdesigns]

you are at a crossroad.
can you do the conversion yourself??
If not, you will spend $$$$$ to get it in. If you can do the work yourself, you could then pull the head, and have a shop rebuild your head for a fraction of the price.

 

[phoenixrider]

think about it. at ~200k, you don't have that much life left in the engine before it's time for a complete rebuild.

so, it were me, I'd either consider a complete rebuild, or do your v-8 conversion. Sending 2k on an engine that'll need refreshing soon anyways don't make that much sense to me.

 

[Mark W]

Since you are looking at spending money ti have someone else do the repair work, I assume that you would also be paying someone to do any swap.


You'll be into it a LOT more than $2K unless you have an engine to swap into it already paid for. Could still be into it for more, even if the engine itself is not a cost factor.


How has he determined that you have a bad head gasket (with good compression numbers???). What sort of symptoms has the rig been exhibiting?

$1500 for a HG and valve job is not unrealistic. Another $500 for a carb rebuild at the same time is however.


Mark...

 

[sj]

That is part of my dilema, I have heard it can cost anywhere from 7-10k to do a 350 conversion. My brother had the suggestion to have someone put in the engine and then I could do all of the small stuff like wiring. I am not sure how realistic that is or how much that will save me.

The guys said there were bubbles in the coolant(or something to that affect) and the some of the plugs were fouled, which I just changed out maybe 1-4k miles ago.

Maybe it is becuase it is the easier of the two solutions, but I think I would be happy if I could get this done and have the engine last another 50k or so miles. I understand that I could have this done and something else come up but that is just playing the odds.

 

[84CRUISER]

I dont know how mechanical you are, but head gaskets on these motors is very easy. The toughest part is marking all the miles of vacuum line so they end up where they belong. secondly, get a second opinion, it never hurts. Lastly, tightening up the top end can cause extra strain on the bottom end especially at your mileage, so dont do a valve job if you dont have to. Does it blow smoke on shift? How does he know the seals are bad? anyway, seals are a snap once the head is off, given you can get ahold of a spring compressor. To not replace them at this time is dumb. Not counting my labor, cuz its free. The head job on my fj60 cost $200. Head gasket, intake/exhaust gasket, one burnt exhaust valve, valve seals and valve cover gasket,,, and the machine work{shave head and check for cracks} With the money you save you can fuel inject it and lose the carb in the process. Once again, get another opinion.

 

[grant5127]

The guys said there were bubbles in the coolant(or something to that affect) and the some of the plugs were fouled, which I just changed out maybe 1-4k miles ago.

bubbles? do a block test.... fouled plugs? by what? you said it needed valve stem seals and carb rebuild....don't condemn it just yet....

 

[Cruzerman]

think about it. at ~200k, you don't have that much life left in the engine before it's time for a complete rebuild.

My engine has 335K and going strong. And I am not uncommon. I wouldn't assume just because it has 200K it's time for a rebuild.

 

[cruiser88]

Since you are looking at spending money ti have someone else do the repair work, I assume that you would also be paying someone to do any swap.


You'll be into it a LOT more than $2K unless you have an engine to swap into it already paid for. Could still be into it for more, even if the engine itself is not a cost factor.


How has he determined that you have a bad head gasket (with good compression numbers???). What sort of symptoms has the rig been exhibiting?

$1500 for a HG and valve job is not unrealistic. Another $500 for a carb rebuild at the same time is however.


Mark...

1500 for a head job is realistic? dam

 

[cruiser88]

My engine has 335K and going strong. And I am not uncommon. I wouldn't assume just because it has 200K it's time for a rebuild.

And his compresson#### look good also.
But I am with Mark on the headgasket because of the numbers. You may just have bad valve seals.

 

[Mark W]

1500 for a head job is realistic? dam

A lot of shops are not familiar with these rigs and don't know any shortcuts.

Depending on how much work is needed on the head (how many valves and/or seats may have to actually be replaced) the machine work can easily top $400 all by itself. Not always but be prepared for it.

Labor at some shops in some regions can easily run $75-$100 an hour.

If you completely remove the mainfolds to get the head off... And completely remove the carb and emissions to get the manifolds off... That can add up quickly.

Pay the cost of gaskets and other consumables that the shops charge (markup), rather than any sort of discounted price that might be out there to be found...

Yeah, $1500 quote doesn't surprise me.

But again, another $500 for carb work??? That's crazy.


Mark...

 

[sj]

I decided to let him do the work, he is also going to do a few more things for me. If it had been May, maybe I would have tried it myself, but here in Arizona the the temps are getting into the 80s, now is the time to be outside hiking, hunting, and wheeling.

He said it should be done in about two weeks. I asked him if there is anything else I should do, he did say I could do headers if I want them. I have searched here and found mixed results, so I might just save the money and not do them.

 

[phoenixrider]

I think headers just by themselves may not be worth it. Usualy you'll want to do a cam with headers. even then, people like Jim C say the headers don't add a whole lot.

did vern show you my 60 with headers on?

 

[Tinker]

Search on 2F rebuilds - someone recently posted about a rebuild he just got by the shop that does MAF's engines. If you're not power-hungry (I am) a good, complete rebuild is what you need. If you just rebuild the head it will hasten the demise of your rings & bearings. What my dad called "cutting a dog's tail off a little bit at a time".

 

[Mark W]

Fixing problems with the head will have nothing to do with, or have any effect on the bearings. It is a weak argument that it will have any adverse effect on the rings, no matter how worn, one that I don't buy myself.


Mark...

 

[Buckwheat]

2F head

Unfortunately that vintage of head does tend to crack so I agree with most of the above. Good across-the-board compression numbers like yours wouldn't be there if the head gasket leaked compression into the coolant jacket, now, would they? Plus it would be overheating like a mofo. My cylinders, crank, pistons & rods were all standard after 250K miles, but #5 was cracked in the compression chamber & all intake valve seals were shot. The sucker had just passed the smog test, too, so it wasn't misfiring, as usually is the case with a blown head gasket. Bubbles in the coolant needs to be throughly diagnosed before opening up the engine. I had to get another head. Read: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=87140 to get all the skinny on the 2F & heads.