6 speed vs Auto - What's the real difference? (1 Viewer)

[Brock]

wow there is a lot of opinion here and very few of them are based on facts...with a lot of "they are pieces of trash" or most are sold in three years because "the autos are crap"..... me thinks some no not of what they speak.

i have had both auto and manual in everything from sport cars, to trucks, to 4x4....and here is my opinion which happens to mirror some of the others on the two:

1. If you live on farm and rarely go into town where you sit in traffic for an hour on a daily commute...then lean towards the auto.

2. if you travel in open areas, dirt roads without a lot of changes in terrain...get a manual

3. if you enjoy shifting through gears, have experience working clutch on inclines and declines, dont have a history of burning up clutches....then get a manual.

4. if you do a LOT OF TOWING in hills and challenging terrain...then get the manual

5. if you work in city or high density suburban area for day job....use your FJ as daily driver and only get her dirty during hunting season, when camping, or the occasional TLCA meet and greet.....then get an auto

6. if you like the better mileage (without towing) from using cruise control and having it automatically shift gears in mountains or other....then get auto

7. if you have many years of offroading experience in mud, rock, sand, snow...and understand how well built Toyota transmissions and differentials are...and have lived through the stalls on steep inclines, the constant shifting in traffic that is stop and go like in DC Metro area... then I would go with Auto.

I ride a motorcycle...shift is the only option for me....and I absolutely hate riding in traffic not only when it is hot for engine temp...but also because no matter who you are and how long you been riding/foot pumping a clutch....the s*** gets old.

So if you are sporty...spend more than 50% of your time offroad....dont drive in ANY traffic...get the manual. If not, then I think you will enjoy the Auto more over the long term life of your vehicle. Like I said I have had manual in Cherokee, FJ60, Wrangler, BMW..and auto in Dodge and now FJ...and wish I would have had an Auto in all of them maybe except the BMW when I lived in Europe for few years.

I also dont get the big deal some make with ....full time 4wd versus part time. With the traction control, stability control, abs brakes and such...I honestly do not think there is a big enough gain in FULL TIME versus PART TIME to make that valid. Plus there is additional wear on system with it being FULL TIME.

Just some thoughts....maybe it is because I am getting older ( i did not say wiser ) but I think most would be better served with the Automatic in the long run if they were honest with themselves. This from someone that has been wheeling for 30 years nearly...and driving everything from farm trucks to tractors to military jeeps, hummers, deuces, 5-ton 6wd carriers, tractor trailers, atv, motorcycles, sport cars (triumph tr4a, midget, sprite, bmw 2002 tii, bmw 330, saab aero, vette, etc...) and 4x4 personal vehicles.

Good luck but just give an honest review of how much wheeling you do and will do...versus how much is city or country driving.

 

[k_os]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but it just came to mind that the MT6 being Full time 4wd it features the Torsen center locking diff(which is not in the AT), which is really a marvel or engineering... here's a very small piece of literature on it.

T-3 Torsen Center Differential

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] Next came the torsen (stands for TORque SENsing) differential, which was embraced by Audi in its second generation quattro system. Audi was approached by FF development (owners of the VC patent) during development of the original quattro back in the late 1970's but the VC was rejected for reasons that will become clear shortly. The torsen diff was invented by an American company (Gleason corp.) and had all the advantages of the VC and none of its disadvantages. It is a fully mechanical device of worm gears and a worm wheel whose workings are quite difficult to describe with words and probably beyond the scope of this article. However, the torsen's characteristics is the issue that is of interest here. The torsen differential will split torque 50:50 in a no-slip condition. However, when one axle slips, the torsen diff will send more torque to the axle with more grip, in other words, it works in an exactly opposite way to a conventional diff. Torque splits of up to 80:20 are available, depending on the pitch of the worm gears. And since it is a completely mechanical device, the locking action is instantaneous and progressive as opposed to the VC, which has a very slight lag for the viscous fluid to heat up and suddenly lock. The torque sensing characteristics of the torsen also allows it to be proactive in preventing wheel spin rather than reactive, in correcting a wheel spin situation. The torsen diff is thus "more sensitive" to slip than the VC. Its locking action is also more progressive. (Porsche also rejected the VC in the 964 Carrera 4 because they felt that the VC was too difficult to control and that it had exponential rather than linear locking characteristics.)

More importantly, the torsen does not lock or inhibit speed differences under braking, thus allowing all 4 wheels to rotate independently at their own speeds when no power is applied. The torsen diff only locks in a power application situation while the VC locks both during acceleration and braking. The torsen has a torque sensing characteristic while the VC has a rotational sensing characteristic.

[/FONT]

 

[ckline]

I love all the opinions. I guess it really comes down to which one you prefer to drive? My first car was an auto, after all have been manuals (I like to control the gear and torque) except one. I only had that truck for a year before I got the FJC. I would be under the classification of "little skill", and don't mind burning a clutch and replacing it. It is cheaper, that was a major consideration when deciding between the two. I also plan on putting (hopefully) 400k miles on this one! The 6 is much more fun to drive, my opinion, than the auto. I drove both before I purchased, and had to actually wait for 3 months before my manual was shipped in. That said, I have had no problems (excluding driver error) on rocks, climbs and decents. From what I understand the MPG is not that much of a difference. When I got mine, gas wasn't as much.....now its where it is, that could be a big difference for a daily driver!

 

[Woodeye]

Hi Folks,

I love my FJ MT6. Has anyone else had an issue with the high gearing of the reverse gear? That along with the high idle speed makes it really tough backing into or out of a parking spot or my garage, or anywhere else. Backing up a trailer is also a real picnic at about 8-10 mpg, gotta keep pushing in the clutch any time I am backing. It's got to be tough on that too. I also seem to be feeling a lot of gear lash in the drive line. It's always been like that from day one. Almost 15K on her now and I still love it1 Just these couple of things bug me. Any help out there?

Thanks,

Woodeye

 

[Mountainclimber]

Woodeye-

Are you sure its not your driving technique?

Just kidding of course.

I've noticed the same thing with mine, mainly due to the higher idle speeds.
I've been using the foot brake or using low range for longer backs.

Of course we could always resort to parking trailers by ear...

Seriously though I asked the dealer about the higher idle speed and lack of responsiveness when you let off the fuel. It comes down to slow idle around 700 RPM's eventually but there is a lag. They tell me this is normal. Of course if I needed to know what time it was I wouldn't ask them.

That is my only complaint about this little bus so far. And my only complaint with the dealer network. If the service advisor doesn't know, he'll ask an inexperienced technician who doesn't really know either. They used to call these guys mechanics.

 

[ckline]

Woodeye-

I feel your pain. Tooling around the city I don't mind the high reverse speed. Not to long ago I was dragging a trailer and backing it up into a covered parking space. Probably should have done what Mountainclimber talked about, using a lower gear. It was a big Uhaul trailer and I jammed it into one of the posts holding the cover up (and I do know how to drag a trailer!!). No real damage done to either, but thats when I realized the high idle for the first time.

You have got to be pretty good backing one up at 10mph. Kinda matches the number of mpgs you get while dragging one!

 

[Woodeye]

Thanks Moutainclimber!

I know what you mean about the "technicians" I used to be a mechanic too and in those days we actually repaired vehicles. What about using the low range on dry pavement and turning the front wheels to steer? I thought that was not good for the drive train. Please set me straignt and I'd be glad to do that.

Woodeye

 

[Woodeye]

Ckline,

Thanks, I am usually a trailer backing SOB! with not trouble, long or short. My brain is consatly saying $1000 for a new clutch, over and over again. With only 15K maybe they will warranty it if needed. what about the (I believe) extra slop or lash in the drive train? any experience with that on yours?

Thanks,

Woodeye

 

[Mountainclimber]

Thanks Moutainclimber!

I know what you mean about the "technicians" I used to be a mechanic too and in those days we actually repaired vehicles. What about using the low range on dry pavement and turning the front wheels to steer? I thought that was not good for the drive train. Please set me straignt and I'd be glad to do that.

Woodeye

For the few times and limited distances we're talking about here I'd wager a guess that we won't do any drive train damage on pavement. I haven't noticed any problems yet any way.

I tried it just to see if I could slow the process down. Try it once and see if it works better for you.

I've been backing trailers since I was a kid and even after 40 some odd years of practice, I still don't do it well fast. But slow is a different story...


And yes, mechanics used to fix stuff. Even if they never saw it before. They would figure it out and repair it right. There are a few still out there. I'm just not sure where.

 

[ckline]

Ckline,

Thanks, I am usually a trailer backing SOB! with not trouble, long or short. My brain is consatly saying $1000 for a new clutch, over and over again. With only 15K maybe they will warranty it if needed. what about the (I believe) extra slop or lash in the drive train? any experience with that on yours?

Thanks,

Woodeye

Of the 30k miles I have on mine I have probably pulled 6k of them. I haven't noticed any slop or lash that I can remember. The only thing that haunts me is the constant down shifting. You might be pulling bigger and longer trailers than me though. I think the biggest and heaviest I have pulled is a Natique. The $1k has crossed my mind many times...but I think it may be over. After Katemcy and a hard hit to the receiver, I had a hard time fitting the hitch back in (nice insert opportunity for a Michael Scott "thats what she said"!). I may use that as an excuse to stay away from pulling for a while

 

[Woodeye]

For the few times and limited distances we're talking about here I'd wager a guess that we won't do any drive train damage on pavement. I haven't noticed any problems yet any way.

I tried it just to see if I could slow the process down. Try it once and see if it works better for you.

I've been backing trailers since I was a kid and even after 40 some odd years of practice, I still don't do it well fast. But slow is a different story...


And yes, mechanics used to fix stuff. Even if they never saw it before. They would figure it out and repair it right. There are a few still out there. I'm just not sure where.

Thanks for the info. I will be trying the low range. Hang in there1

Woodeye

 

[Woodeye]

ckline,

thanks for the help. I haven't towed much with this rig but about a 3500 lb. load. Works fine except the backing, and heay, the mpg.

Ever been to Whitney, Tx? Got a small cylinder fill plant amd welding supply store there. Nice small town!

Woodeye

 

[ckline]

ckline,

thanks for the help. I haven't towed much with this rig but about a 3500 lb. load. Works fine except the backing, and heay, the mpg.

Ever been to Whitney, Tx? Got a small cylinder fill plant amd welding supply store there. Nice small town!

Woodeye

I know where it is, but haven't had the opportunity to drive through there yet. Do you go out there often?