4WD testing procedures

[GLTHFJ60]

When I went to go test my 60 last summer, I wanted to test out the 4wd functionality to make sure that the birfs were in good working order. To do that, I figured I'd throw it in high range and do some lock to lock turning at 5mph or so to ensure that there was no binding. After that checked out, I threw it in low range to verify the same results and it tested out fine with some expected tire chirping. I thought that this was a good test, but after asking the 80 guys about doing this in an 80, I was seriously reprimanded. I thought that this was a good test, but I guess not.

How do you guys test out 4wd on a test drive, and is my method horribly wrong?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Check out this thread that I started in the 80 section. I think that we should have a "correct" 4wd testing procedure for new guys so they don't repeat my mistakes.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/219573-60-addict-80-question.html

 

[REKCUT]

Dude, they are 80 owners. What did you expect. Lot of them are condesending towards other series. They act like you were doing burnouts in the parking lot for hours. You put it in low and got it to bind a little. I doubt this did anymore damage than when you are on the trail on rocks and turn hard left or right. I would not worry about it. In the future put it on a lift and see if the front axle is free when in 2wd and if it is bound with the tranny when in 4 wheel. You can also have someone outside look and see if the front axle is turning. Then there is no reason to turn in the parking lot. You can just try out the low in a straight line.

P.S. OMG someone call the cops, there is a guy abusing his sixty by turning circles. We need to take his truck away.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Dude, they are 80 owners. What did you expect. Lot of them are condesending towards other series. They act like you were doing burnouts in the parking lot for hours. You put it in low and got it to bind a little. I doubt this did anymore damage than when you are on the trail on rocks and turn hard left or right. I would not worry about it. In the future put it on a lift and see if the front axle is free when in 2wd and if it is bound with the tranny when in 4 wheel. You can also have someone outside look and see if the front axle is turning. Then there is no reason to turn in the parking lot. You can just try out the low in a straight line.

P.S. OMG someone call the cops, there is a guy abusing his sixty by turning circles. We need to take his truck away.

Rekcut, I agree with you on that, to a point. I wonder if the responses would have been different if I didn't outwardly say that I was a 60 guy. That's not the point though.

I didn't think that doing what I did was outwardly abusing the rig. As I said I have done it on both 60s I have had and with no ill effects. What IdahoDoug says here makes a ton of sense...

Holy moly, some really edgy advice here that is bordering on wrong. Yes, you can drive your 80 in low range all day long in low range on grippy pavement. It is designed for that kind of abuse, it is not a pollyanna SUV. As noted that is what you would be doing all day and all week on a trip to Moab where it is essentially grippy as pavement and far more stress since sometimes the fronts have up to 85% of the vehicle's weight on them while you're turning (vs less on a flat parking lot). This front end was also designed for a locker, which adds orders of magnitude more stress on the birf.

Obviously if something's going to break, this is putting stress on the system that is designed to take it but wear of a decade and a half obviously changes things in an unknown way.

The sound you are hearing is the balls in the birfield snapping across a groove worn into the inner and outer birfield cage/star. If there's proper grease in there, it will do this for years. If it has been worn too much then no amount of grease will prevent a failure if you have larger tires or lockers on the front. Personally I would not sweat it if there are any records of axle maintenance.

Grumble, grumble....

DougM

My initial logic for this test was to test for the degree of wear on the birfields, and this explains that perfectly.

Also, I'm taking that last line for my sig. That's priceless!!

 

[REKCUT]

I agree with you and I have done the same thing sir and what IDaHoDouG says does make sence. Now we just need a video of you doing figure 8's around a bunch of 80's in a parking lot with your hair on fire.

 

[krookedpandas]

your 60 is just stronger than their 80's...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

UPDATE: The conclusion is here, from the 80 forum. My interpretation is that the 80 can produce more traction on asphalt due to the wider stock tires, heavier weight and the coil springs. Therefore, they will complain more in one of my tests.

Finally, the correct 4wd testing procedure for a 60 would be to do tight circles at about 5mph in 2wd hi, 4wd low and 4wd high to test the condition of the birfields.

GLTHFJ60, when I started reading this thread I was all ready to go off and start yelling at people. I'm very glad IdahoDoug came along and gave you some cool-headed opinions, and even happier that Tools backed him up further. Your test, circles in a parking lot in low range and CDL locked, was perfectly valid. The birfs get more wear on the AWD system, and that added wear explains the clicking. The clicking is NOT something to feel good about; it is what it is, which is a sign of wear. My personal belief is that the birfields are more likely to have a failure when they have this wear; that when turning the balls get 'stuck' in the wear groove and something has to give, which can be the star, cage, cup, or multiples of those. The test you ran gave you evidence of that wear. I don't see any reason not to run a test on dry pavement in low with the CDL locked, (although I wouldn't personally try it with the front diff locked but even that might be within the design parameters) and I'd expect that in a truck with a perfect drivetrain that tire scrub or chirping should be all you get. Finding a truck with that perfect drivetrain would be tough, though. You might indeed find yourself having to replace a birfield after that test, but if so I'd say 'better here than on a trail', as the part was worn and destined to fail at some point.

Bottom line: don't change your thinking. Factor in slightly worn birfs into your opinion of the truck you checked out.

-Spike

Any more 60 guys have opinions? Mace? Kevin? woytovich? Anyone?

 

[Wile E Coyote]

I would have no problem with a serious buyer doing your test on my 80. (Never had an 80, but had a Heep GC with similar full-time characteristics)

It seems to boil down to the avg 80 owner's idea of abuse is not the same as the avg 60 or earlier owner.

 

[Mace]

By the time things start to bind up to a point where breakage might occur, you will know it..

Most likely, you will just put a bit more wear on the tires..

I would not worry about it.

But, I would also take it onto the dirt somewhere as a better test
Wheelin is so much more fun in the dirt

 

[cruiser88]

No sweat

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Sometimes, I'm really glad I chose a 60 over an 80 just based on the people on each side. They are really passionate about convincing me that this is not a valid test for an 80, nor ANY 4wd vehicle, 60's included, and that I'm a flipping retard for thinking that it wasn't a big deal.

I love my 60!!!

 

[cruiser88]

Sometimes, I'm really glad I chose a 60 over an 80 just based on the people on each side. They are really passionate about convincing me that this is not a valid test for an 80, nor ANY 4wd vehicle, 60's included, and that I'm a flipping retard for thinking that it wasn't a big deal.

I love my 60!!!

Just do not do that test and forget to take her out of 4 wheel


























:whoops:That might be a bad thing on dry pavement fairly soon






Oh.....we are very friendly over here.....lol

 

[GLTHFJ60]

:whoops:That might be a bad thing on dry pavement fairly soon

Oh.....we are very friendly over here.....lol

Elaborate?

You guys being so friendly is part of the reason why I'm still here after 4 years or so, and more importantly 2 60'.

 

[cruiser88]

Elaborate?

You guys being so friendly is part of the reason why I'm still here after 4 years or so, and more importantly 2 60'.

All i mean that eventuality driving on dry pavement in 4 wheel will hurt the transfer or something up front.....maybe a birfield.

Nothing wrong with what you done.

 

[Mace]

If the tires are not allowed to slip you are putting a considerable amount of stress on the tcase.

It is generally only an issue after a couple of hundred yards driving...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

If the tires are not allowed to slip you are putting a considerable amount of stress on the tcase.

It is generally only an issue after a couple of hundred yards driving...

Which is the same reason why it could be difficult to get a split case to come out of 4wd, necessitating going in reverse a little bit. In short circles, this should not be an issue at all then.

 

[Mace]

yep...

To elaborate a bit,
Full time 4wd trucks typically have some sort of coupling that allows for the front wheels and rear wheels to slip back independently. When you lock the center tcase, you are mechanically connecting the front and rear axle. Same basic thing as putting the 60 in 4wd.

 

[cruiser88]

yep...

To elaborate a bit,
Full time 4wd trucks typically have some sort of coupling that allows for the front wheels and rear wheels to slip back independently. When you lock the center tcase, you are mechanically connecting the front and rear axle. Same basic thing as putting the 60 in 4wd.

Viscous coupler

 

[GLTHFJ60]

yep...

To elaborate a bit,
Full time 4wd trucks typically have some sort of coupling that allows for the front wheels and rear wheels to slip back independently. When you lock the center tcase, you are mechanically connecting the front and rear axle. Same basic thing as putting the 60 in 4wd.

It's this fact that made me think that doing the same test in an 80 would provide the same insightful results, but I was mistaken.

Anyway, a good test for the 60 is to do some lock to lock circles slowly in low to test the condition of the birfields.