3B specs and differences

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keving

keving

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
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Location
Nelson, BC, Canada
I have an 85 BJ60, built in Nov of 84. Now I understand that the 3B's built after september of 84 have the 2 extra cam bearings which is a huge bonus. and the alluminum bellhousing. Are there any other differences with the 85 and newer 3B?
I heard someone say that 83 and earlier blocks were sleeved and the latter ones were not...sounded strange to me.

What is the best overall year of 3B? Im sure happy with mine, not many miles and senior owned, runs great. Im burning 20% bio blend for lubricity. Good stuff, washed and dried and glycerin removed.
 
In the later years there starts to be a lot of variation in 3B's based on year and the engine's market - before that all 3B's were more or less the same, except for which way the Tstat output pointed. Mostly little stuff, like the location of the radiator cap, etc.

To my knowledge all 3B's are sleeved. I think some of the 2H's were unsleeved but I hadn't heard that about a *B.

The cam bearing is a desirable change, if I was going to buy a new 3B I'd definitely go for that vintage. The aluminum bellhousing is not a plus or a minus, just different, IMO.

You could go for one of the JDM engines with the rotary pump - the pump isn't as bulletproof, it seems, but my seat-of-the-pants feeling is that it makes a quieter and more powerful 3B.

And then of course there's the 3B-II, which was either a mad engineer's experiment, or represented the culmination of 3B evolution... I'm not sure.
 
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keving said:
....I heard someone say that 83 and earlier blocks were sleeved and the latter ones were not...sounded strange to me.
Click to expand...

amaurer said:
...To my knowledge all 3B's are sleeved. I think some of the 2H's were unsleeved but I hadn't heard that about a *B.....
Click to expand...

Just checked the EPC and it appears August 1988 was the changeover time when the 3B went sleeveless:

SleevedVersusSleeveless.webp

:cheers:

PS. This comes from BJ60 information but I suspect other models followed suite.
SleevedVersusSleeveless.webp
 
thanks a lot guys! Those are great pictures lostmarbles. Is the rotary pump also lubed by engine oil like the inline pump is?

What exactly is the advantage to having a sleeved block? Harder metal in the sleeve compared to a parent bore engine?

One of the reasons that im asking is beacause I recently picked up an 83 for parts, motor runs but wondering what all will interchange between the two motors. Looks like just about everything external. Its a high mileage motor, probably due for some cam bearings
 
keving said:
...Is the rotary pump also lubed by engine oil like the inline pump is?......
Click to expand...

No. It relies on the lubricity of the diesel fuel.

This is the image used in the Aug 88 FSM for describing the removal of the injection pump. As you can see, there are no oil lines:

Augt88onwards.webp

:beer:
Augt88onwards.webp
 
Uh huh, I see. Well I really like the idea of having an injection pump that is lubed by engine oil also, so im happy to have the inline pump.
 
How come the oil filter is mounted upside down on what seems to be, 1985 and later models?

Any benifits to this?
 
Does this upside down filter drain when the engine is shut down? Im assuming it would. Wouldn't that create a longer period after start up to re gain oil pressure?
 
keving said:
How come the oil filter is mounted upside down on what seems to be, 1985 and later models?

Any benifits to this?
Click to expand...

From what I can see that change didn't occur till May 1995.

At least the 1986 and 1988 3B engine FSMs still show the filter in the usual (more sensible?) orientation but the May 1995 FSM (RM464E) shows it upside down (but still not in all illustrations even there).

I've always wondered on the reason too and assumed that changing it (during an oil change) would amount to a REALLY messy job (considering the fact that I usually still make a mess when mine's the right way up).

keving said:
Does this upside down filter drain when the engine is shut down? Im assuming it would. Wouldn't that create a longer period after start up to re gain oil pressure?
Click to expand...

Every filter should have it's own inbuilt anti-drain/anti-syphon valve:
OilFilter1.webp
OilFilterCheckValve1.webp
OilFilterCheckValve2.webp





:beer:

OilFilter1.webp


OilFilterCheckValve2.webp


OilFilterCheckValve1.webp
 
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Good pics once again Tom!!!

But, mine does in fact have an upside down filter (I'll take a pic next time I have a chance) and its indeed an 85. Built in Nov of 84..

Changing the oil isn't as bad as you might think. That worries me actually because there isn't a whole ton of oil in the filter when I spin it off. I have tried many brands to see if the drain back valves work better in other brands and the all act the same.

Today I changed the oil in a 1992 Toyota Corolla 2C diesel which has a sideways filter. Much more oil was spilled out of this one compared to my 3B.
 
keving said:
Good pics once again Tom!!!

But, mine does in fact have an upside down filter (I'll take a pic next time I have a chance) and its indeed an 85. Built in Nov of 84..

Changing the oil isn't as bad as you might think. That worries me actually because there isn't a whole ton of oil in the filter when I spin it off. I have tried many brands to see if the drain back valves work better in other brands and the all act the same.

Today I changed the oil in a 1992 Toyota Corolla 2C diesel which has a sideways filter. Much more oil was spilled out of this one compared to my 3B.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Obviously the FSM illustrations aren't a good guide then.

So ... Looking up Coaster BB2# models on the EPC (which used a 3B engine from May 82 until past the period were interested in) I see the same oil filter BRACKET SUB-ASSY (that the filter screws into) right the way through so that doesn't shed any light for me on the exact changeover.

And the CASE, OIL COOLER that the above bracket bolts to remains the same too (for pre-1995).

So I can't see the oil-filter-orientation change pre-95 on the EPC either.

Are you really sure of your engine manufacture date?

:cheers:

PS. You could well be right about this. (I'm NOT really confident about my 1995 changeover date.)

I'm not even certain that the valve I pointed out on the filter itself would prevent draining to tell you the truth ... especially when a filter is upside-down.
 
Here is a picture of my filter mount.

As for the engine history; I know the original owner quite well (and I bought it from him) and the engine has never been out for a replacement/rebuild or anything. I have the engine casting number writen down somewhere when I was checking to see if it was in fact a 5 bearing cam engine. I'll find that number or go read it off the block when I have time. Perhaps the oil cooler was replaced from a newer unit??? He doesn't remember doing that however.

My father has a 13B-T BJ74, (1989) which also has the same setup. At least it looks pretty well the same from the un-trained eye.

DSC02339.webp
 
keving said:
Here is a picture of my filter mount.

As for the engine history; I know the original owner quite well (and I bought it from him) and the engine has never been out for a replacement/rebuild or anything. I have the engine casting number writen down somewhere when I was checking to see if it was in fact a 5 bearing cam engine. I'll find that number or go read it off the block when I have time. Perhaps the oil cooler was replaced from a newer unit??? He doesn't remember doing that however.

My father has a 13B-T BJ74, (1989) which also has the same setup. At least it looks pretty well the same from the un-trained eye.
Click to expand...

Rightyho... Searched BJ60 data and DID indeed find a changeover date on the EPC of November 1984 for turning the filter upside-down.

And I see the 13BT for a BJ74 has the same upside-down arrangement on the epc too.

I just knew I had to be missing something. - I was assuming that Toyota would have made that engine modification independant of vehicle model but this is not the case.

3F engine has it upside down too.

But we're still no closer to working out why they did it..

Perhaps because there's more room for the filter when facing up (and it is easier to get at when mounted that way?

I know my filter is hard to access. (I have to remove a little splash-guard from my RH chassis rail to be able to see what I'm doing.)

:beer:

PS. Did you just add your vehicle details in your signature line? (I'm wondering why I never searched under BJ60 before.)
 
Thanks for looking through your resources Tom, much appreciated.

Yes this filter is very easy to change, as one can easily reach it by leaning over the fender. Lots of room for a filter wrench on there also. Perhaps, that is indeed why they changed it.

I have had my vehicle signature up there for a while (I think??) Im not very good with computers so maybe it wasn't listed:doh:

Thanks again, happy cruising.:beer:
 
The 2f has always been upside down. As far as petrol engines go, the life expectancy of 2fs does not seem to have been too badly affected by this annoyance as they routinely get over 250,000 miles. I agree though that I preferred changing oil on my 2h; plus one can fill the filter with an entire quart of oil before screwing it on....
 
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