2016 transmission hard shift

[Brandon966]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

 

[Sajan]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

Considering it sounds like the TSB issue, why not take it to the dealer before going down the rabbit hole…

 

[Hidec]

My 2016 w/ 75k was shifting harder than I thought it should last fall.

Drained about 8 quarts of transmission fluid and replaced w/ OEM. Shifting was much smoother afterwards.

 

[Sandroad]

Interesting that an independent shop had access to the transmission programming update. Maybe that's common? I have no idea about shifting of the 8 speed when there has been a throttle tune, though many on here have reported great results with the truck's behavior using a Pedal Commander. Assuming the multiple drain and fills were with the correct fluid, it is very unlikely a mechanical problem with the transmission. I also have no idea if a dealer would help, now that there has been a tune. They would likely just blame any shifting issues on that, since transmission shifting is originally programed with factory throttle response. If it was mine, I would do a complete fluid exchange using the methods posted on here and with Toyota WS fluid. Have you tried using the ECT button? It holds gears longer and before I had the TSB update on mine, using ECT helped shifting a lot. And as a relevant aside, do you really want to keep the truck? You've posted multiple times about problems and your unhappiness with it. Might be worth it in the long run to cut your losses and get something you can enjoy. Life is short.

 

[Brandon966]

Interesting that an independent shop had access to the transmission programming update. Maybe that's common? I have no idea about shifting of the 8 speed when there has been a throttle tune, though many on here have reported great results with the truck's behavior using a Pedal Commander. Assuming the multiple drain and fills were with the correct fluid, it is very unlikely a mechanical problem with the transmission. I also have no idea if a dealer would help, now that there has been a tune. They would likely just blame any shifting issues on that, since transmission shifting is originally programed with factory throttle response. If it was mine, I would do a complete fluid exchange using the methods posted on here and with Toyota WS fluid. Have you tried using the ECT button? It holds gears longer and before I had the TSB update on mine, using ECT helped shifting a lot. And as a relevant aside, do you really want to keep the truck? You've posted multiple times about problems and your unhappiness with it. Might be worth it in the long run to cut your losses and get something you can enjoy. Life is short.

It’s true, my wife and I have not fallen in love as we had hoped. I’d cut losses now, but it’s her truck and she wants to give it the ol college try.

Yeah with or without the ECT button it’s about the same. I spoke with the local dealer and they didn’t seem interested in helping, figured we would try the tube route. Worst case I can go back to stock tune and try a different dealer…if a transmission service does not work.

 

[Sajan]

It’s true, my wife and I have not fallen in love as we had hoped. I’d cut losses now, but it’s her truck and she wants to give it the ol college try.

Yeah with or without the ECT button it’s about the same. I spoke with the local dealer and they didn’t seem interested in helping, figured we would try the tube route. Worst case I can go back to stock tune and try a different dealer…if a transmission service does not work.

retune it to stock, go back to a diff dealer, ask them to verify/complete TSB and take that out of the equation.
then do the transmission service.

 

[Zill]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

Is it a hard shift or a full clunk?

My 2016 post TSB still has a firm shift between 1-2 and 2-3 under really heavy acceleration, but I can tell Toyota designed it that way as a nature of the transmission. I actually like it that way when you’re trying to haul ass.

It’s better for the transmission to have a hard shift than it is an easy shift because there’s less clutch/band wear. You get an easy shift because the internal clutches are slipping until it engages, and would lessen the life of those clutches when under heavy load.

 

[2021 LC200]

A lot of good points already made, just adding some perspective:

- I own a 2021 LC200 from new (Nov 2020) and despite the improved software for the 8 speed from factory, it is not butter smooth from 1 to 2 and especially when slowing down for a 90 degree corner and accelerating again in say neighborhoods. That sometimes also goes with a relative harsh shift back to first gear and a lot of revs and pick up from there. By now my wife and I have adapted to not hit the accelerator as much coming out of those slow corners. This is just a function of a heavy drive train and more so Engine/Gearbox factory “tuning” which seems focussed on longevity (also noticeable when shifting down more than it should with cruise control on) than smoothness.
- Another aspect is some minimal play in the drive shaft splines aka slip yoke. I had at times during these slow corners and 1 to 2 shifts some minor “clunk” from it (actually more so lifting the accelerator abruptly and then re applying at 35 mph type speeds), until at around 30k miles I greased the driveshafts (please search forum how to do that, especially the driveshafts splines/slip yokes not be overdone or it puts axial pressure on the system). I have repeated that at 42k miles, with current at 46k miles. No more minor clunk in the driveshafts which is a nice improvement. My observation is that from factory (my experience from 5 to 30k miles) the amount of grease is minimal. If you have the space and can work the basics on cars it is worth making this a DIY item. Otherwise have it done with some specific instruction not to overdo the two slip yokes (one grease point on each the front and rear drive shaft).
- In your case I would make sure the transmission fluid gets changed for OEM fluid and that the leveling procedure gets careful and correct applied (needs to be in certain temp window for the level to bet set and the fill plug to be closed). The wrong fluid can directly affect the gearbox solenoids. I also believe to much fluid can cause harder shifts (solenoids operating with slightly higher pressure), though opinions vary on that. Getting the right Aisin or Toyota fluid is key amd somebody able to work on Toyota’s with software to watch the oil temp. Many USB dongles and software (OBD fusion is quite good and popular, search for it please) can show the transmission temp as well.
- In addition I definitely believe the TSB needs to be done by a Toyota dealer, you probably do that first, as it should be relative easy.

All in all I believe it is worth doing as the vehicle is otherwise great and feels super solid build, something you can enjoy for a long long time, possible decades.

Also like to point out that it is a body on frame and heavy duty build so it drives more like a truck compared to other independent suspension unibody SUV’s. Beauty is that any putholes or bad roads are pretty much irrelevant to the 200 series as it is very, very tough. With the body sitting on eight rubber blocks to the frame it can take bad roads for days and days and it does not hurt it. It is also very quiet inside from road noise (though tires play a big role) which I believe is in part to the body on frame setup.

Good luck as despite some challenges or new aspects, I love our 200 series for the otherwise complete package and capabilities it has.

 

[shane431]

Sounds like you got a lemon. I’ll buy it off you for a reduced price due to the transmission issues

 

[Sajan]

A lot of good points already made, just adding some perspective:

- I own a 2021 LC200 from new (Nov 2020) and despite the improved software for the 8 speed from factory, it is not butter smooth from 1 to 2 and especially when slowing down for a 90 degree corner and accelerating again in say neighborhoods. That sometimes also goes with a relative harsh shift back to first gear and a lot of revs and pick up from there. By now my wife and I have adapted to not hit the accelerator as much coming out of those slow corners. This is just a function of a heavy drive train and more so Engine/Gearbox factory “tuning” which seems focussed on longevity (also noticeable when shifting down more than it should with cruise control on) than smoothness.
- Another aspect is some minimal play in the drive shaft splines aka slip yoke. I had at times during these slow corners and 1 to 2 shifts some minor “clunk” from it, until at around 30k miles I greased the driveshafts (please search forum how to do that, especially the driveshafts splines/slip yokes not be overdone or it puts axial pressure on the system). I have repeated that at 42k miles, with current at 46k miles. No more minor clunk in the driveshafts which is a nice improvement. My observation is that from factory (my experience from 5 to 30k miles) the amount of grease is minimal. If you have the space and can work the basics on cars it is worth making this a DIY item. Otherwise have it done with some specific instruction not to overdo the two slip yokes (one grease point on each the front and rear drive shaft).
- In your case I would make sure the transmission fluid gets changed for OEM fluid and that the leveling procedure gets careful and correct applied (needs to be in certain temp window for the level to bet set and the fill plug to be closed). The wrong fluid can directly affect the gearbox solenoids. I also believe to much fluid can cause harder shifts (solenoids operating with slightly higher pressure), though opinions vary on that. Getting the right Aisin or Toyota fluid is key amd somebody able to work on Toyota’s with software to watch the oil temp. Many USB dongles and software (OBD fusion is quite good and popular, search for it please) can show the transmission temp as well.
- In addition I definitely believe the TSB needs to be done by a Toyota dealer, you probably do that first, as it should be relative easy.

All in all I believe it is worth doing as the vehicle is otherwise great and feels super solid build, something you can enjoy for a long long time, possible decades.

Also like to point out that it is a body on frame and heavy duty build so it drives more like a truck compared to other independent suspension unibody SUV’s. Beauty is that any putholes or bad roads are pretty much irrelevant to the 200 series as it is very, very tough. With the body sitting on eight rubber blocks to the frame it can take bad roads for days on days and it does not hurt it. It is also very quiet inside from road noise (though tires play a big role) which I believe is in part to the body on frame setup.

Good luck as despite some challenges or new aspects, I love our 200 series for the otherwise complete package and capabilities it has.

I have noticed what you said in point one.

 

[camp6ell]

I have the same issue on my 2017 LC200 currently at 105k. Just had the transmission fluid changed at the dealer and it subtly changed the behavior, but I'd say there are still issues in the 1-2-3 gear range... feels like it's hunting for a gear sometimes... will shift down and back up for no reason at constant (low) throttle. Pressing ECT button helped it a lot before the trans fluid change, not as much after.
I guess I have to check with dealer if TSB was performed and take it from there?

 

[2021 LC200]

That is a bummer for sure. Have the maintenance done and then things are not as smooth as factory anymore.

I would do the following:

1) Go to the dealer, have them document the symptoms as they changed the oil and have them perform the TSB if not done already. As part of that visit ask them what transmission oil was used (Toyota OEM or some bulk fluid…) and what fill procedure (needs to be brought to the right temperature window, otherwise you may overfill). Ask them to double check the level.

2) Allow some time, say 1000 miles, for the adaptive shifting to sort itself out, it may get better by itself yet I would do step 1) above, just to cover your bases
P.S. I am basing this on the ability of the transmission to regulate shift pressures within a certain window, unless it does not work like that on this Aisin 8 speed box.

3) If no resolution consider going to another Toyota dealer, insist on OEM Toyota fluid to be used. Perhaps take the vehicle to the Car Care Nut depending on your location

 

[Mrtwooooo]

The "chirp" mentioned in the first post is probably the belt slipping on the engine.

 

[Sajan]

That is a bummer for sure. Have the maintenance done and then things are not as smooth as factory anymore.

I would do the following:

1) Go to the dealer, have them document the symptoms as they changed the oil and have them perform the TSB if not done already. As part of that visit ask them what transmission oil was used (Toyota OEM or some bulk fluid…) and what fill procedure (needs to be brought to the right temperature window, otherwise you may overfill). Ask them to double check the level.

2) Allow some time, say 1000 miles, for the adaptive shifting to sort itself out, it may get better by itself yet I would do step 1) above, just to cover your bases
P.S. I am basing this on the ability of the transmission to regulate shift pressures within a certain window, unless it does not work like that on this Aisin 8 speed box.

3) If no resolution consider going to another Toyota dealer, insist on OEM Toyota fluid to be used. Perhaps take the vehicle to the Car Care Nut depending on your location

Who is your mechanic in H-town?

 

[2021 LC200]

Who is your mechanic in H-town?

Well, there are few parts to it…

ISTA+ for my 2014 BMW 535d

XTOOL D7 and with time maybe Techstream for the 2021 LC200

My pretty good wrenching ability together with my Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering. This helps me to enjoy using things like ISTA+ and to sort through info around and making sensible choices.

All in all keeping up with all the maintenance actually did not require me to sweat it much so far with the F10 535d (I love that car) and zero issues with the LC200 (love it even more…) to date. Fingers crossed!

 

[open country]

I just went through this while getting an OTT tune on my 2016. Short answer - get the TSB done by a dealer, anything else is a workaround.

The TSB file is proprietary to Toyota, so your tuner would have to have access to the OEM data license to install it outside of a dealer (highly unlikely). The software update they performed was for ECU, which can show "latest" version, but does not encompass if the TSB has been performed or not. ECU tuners without an OEM license cannot change the trans computer programming, only the throttle response interference between foot and throttle body like a pedal commander. So it can "help" by feeling slightly different but is not accomplishing the same thing.

 

[awkragt]

I just bought a 200 series at 134k miles and I agree this transmission is harsh. Especially the 1-2 under full throttle is silly. The slow neighborhood 1-2 jerkiness felt way off.

First thing I did was get the TSB done. The TSB really helped the slow speed jerkiness. You can verify it was performed with a cheap Bluetooth OBDII reader and Car Scanner App. My current TCU Calibration is now 895366011500. The TSB stated it would be 895366011400 but I assume Toyota has since updated it again to end in 500.

I've starting doing transmission fluid exchanges to see if that will help. Twice at 2.5L each exchange so far. I think I need to replace a lot more to start seeing a real difference. It's never going to be 1998 smooth but I'm currently finding the 8-speed pretty annoying and clunky.

I guess has anyone found this harsh 1-2 a symptom of a real transmission killing issue or is the consensus just weird programming decisions by Toyota?

 

[Zill]

With the 8 speed, 1st gear is at 4.79 and 2nd is at 2.81. That’s a hell of a spread to shift for 1 gear change, and why it’s always going to feel a bit clunky between 1-2 or 2-1.

The benefit is you get a really good crawl gear in 1st, but the drawback is a harsher shift to the next gear.

Thankfully these 8 speed transmissions have proven to be very reliable, even with the small jerkiness and I wouldn’t be worried about it. It’s just a quirk of a heavy duty machine.

 

[Sajan]

I just bought a 200 series at 134k miles and I agree this transmission is harsh. Especially the 1-2 under full throttle is silly. The slow neighborhood 1-2 jerkiness felt way off.

First thing I did was get the TSB done. The TSB really helped the slow speed jerkiness. You can verify it was performed with a cheap Bluetooth OBDII reader and Car Scanner App. My current TCU Calibration is now 895366011500. The TSB stated it would be 895366011400 but I assume Toyota has since updated it again to end in 500.

I've starting doing transmission fluid exchanges to see if that will help. Twice at 2.5L each exchange so far. I think I need to replace a lot more to start seeing a real difference. It's never going to be 1998 smooth but I'm currently finding the 8-speed pretty annoying and clunky.

I guess has anyone found this harsh 1-2 a symptom of a real transmission killing issue or is the consensus just weird programming decisions by Toyota?

Some drain and fills should help but those 2 scenarios are not the ideal conditions for this tranny. I think it is what it is..

 

[pdosescu]

I just had the TSB reflash and I find the 1-2 upshift on my 2016 with 135K to be slightly better, but not 100% gone. It's only more aggressive between 2500-3000 rpms. Anything below is as smooth as I can ask and anything above 3K is flawless. I am pretty sure the fluid is original and at this point I am not sure if I leave it or drain some... I was going to give the transmission a few hundred miles to see how it adapts.