2016 transmission hard shift

[Brandon966]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

 

[Sajan]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

Considering it sounds like the TSB issue, why not take it to the dealer before going down the rabbit hole…

 

[Hidec]

My 2016 w/ 75k was shifting harder than I thought it should last fall.

Drained about 8 quarts of transmission fluid and replaced w/ OEM. Shifting was much smoother afterwards.

 

[Sandroad]

Interesting that an independent shop had access to the transmission programming update. Maybe that's common? I have no idea about shifting of the 8 speed when there has been a throttle tune, though many on here have reported great results with the truck's behavior using a Pedal Commander. Assuming the multiple drain and fills were with the correct fluid, it is very unlikely a mechanical problem with the transmission. I also have no idea if a dealer would help, now that there has been a tune. They would likely just blame any shifting issues on that, since transmission shifting is originally programed with factory throttle response. If it was mine, I would do a complete fluid exchange using the methods posted on here and with Toyota WS fluid. Have you tried using the ECT button? It holds gears longer and before I had the TSB update on mine, using ECT helped shifting a lot. And as a relevant aside, do you really want to keep the truck? You've posted multiple times about problems and your unhappiness with it. Might be worth it in the long run to cut your losses and get something you can enjoy. Life is short.

 

[Brandon966]

Interesting that an independent shop had access to the transmission programming update. Maybe that's common? I have no idea about shifting of the 8 speed when there has been a throttle tune, though many on here have reported great results with the truck's behavior using a Pedal Commander. Assuming the multiple drain and fills were with the correct fluid, it is very unlikely a mechanical problem with the transmission. I also have no idea if a dealer would help, now that there has been a tune. They would likely just blame any shifting issues on that, since transmission shifting is originally programed with factory throttle response. If it was mine, I would do a complete fluid exchange using the methods posted on here and with Toyota WS fluid. Have you tried using the ECT button? It holds gears longer and before I had the TSB update on mine, using ECT helped shifting a lot. And as a relevant aside, do you really want to keep the truck? You've posted multiple times about problems and your unhappiness with it. Might be worth it in the long run to cut your losses and get something you can enjoy. Life is short.

It’s true, my wife and I have not fallen in love as we had hoped. I’d cut losses now, but it’s her truck and she wants to give it the ol college try.

Yeah with or without the ECT button it’s about the same. I spoke with the local dealer and they didn’t seem interested in helping, figured we would try the tube route. Worst case I can go back to stock tune and try a different dealer…if a transmission service does not work.

 

[Sajan]

It’s true, my wife and I have not fallen in love as we had hoped. I’d cut losses now, but it’s her truck and she wants to give it the ol college try.

Yeah with or without the ECT button it’s about the same. I spoke with the local dealer and they didn’t seem interested in helping, figured we would try the tube route. Worst case I can go back to stock tune and try a different dealer…if a transmission service does not work.

retune it to stock, go back to a diff dealer, ask them to verify/complete TSB and take that out of the equation.
then do the transmission service.

 

[Zill]

2016 with 140k on it, had a drain and fill a few times according to carfax. Noticed the hard shift under heavy throttle from 1-2 and 2-3, studied up on the subject and found multiple threads about this being an issue and a TSB.

Instead of going to the dealer I had a local reputable Toyota tuning company install a tune on the truck and update the software to the latest version. After the test drive the hard shift is still there, and under full throttle from a stop acceleration I heard a slight “chirp” during one shift.

Is it possible that there is actually something mechanical wrong with the transmission? The tuner said normally updating the software and tuning it gets rid of the hard shifts…mine is still there and quite annoying.

Is it a hard shift or a full clunk?

My 2016 post TSB still has a firm shift between 1-2 and 2-3 under really heavy acceleration, but I can tell Toyota designed it that way as a nature of the transmission. I actually like it that way when you’re trying to haul ass.

It’s better for the transmission to have a hard shift than it is an easy shift because there’s less clutch/band wear. You get an easy shift because the internal clutches are slipping until it engages, and would lessen the life of those clutches when under heavy load.

 

[2021 LC200]

A lot of good points already made, just adding some perspective:

- I own a 2021 LC200 from new (Nov 2020) and despite the improved software for the 8 speed from factory, it is not butter smooth from 1 to 2 and especially when slowing down for a 90 degree corner and accelerating again in say neighborhoods. That sometimes also goes with a relative harsh shift back to first gear and a lot of revs and pick up from there. By now my wife and I have adapted to not hit the accelerator as much coming out of those slow corners. This is just a function of a heavy drive train and more so Engine/Gearbox factory “tuning” which seems focussed on longevity (also noticeable when shifting down more than it should with cruise control on) than smoothness.
- Another aspect is some minimal play in the drive shaft splines aka slip yoke. I had at times during these slow corners and 1 to 2 shifts some minor “clunk” from it (actually more so lifting the accelerator abruptly and then re applying at 35 mph type speeds), until at around 30k miles I greased the driveshafts (please search forum how to do that, especially the driveshafts splines/slip yokes not be overdone or it puts axial pressure on the system). I have repeated that at 42k miles, with current at 46k miles. No more minor clunk in the driveshafts which is a nice improvement. My observation is that from factory (my experience from 5 to 30k miles) the amount of grease is minimal. If you have the space and can work the basics on cars it is worth making this a DIY item. Otherwise have it done with some specific instruction not to overdo the two slip yokes (one grease point on each the front and rear drive shaft).
- In your case I would make sure the transmission fluid gets changed for OEM fluid and that the leveling procedure gets careful and correct applied (needs to be in certain temp window for the level to bet set and the fill plug to be closed). The wrong fluid can directly affect the gearbox solenoids. I also believe to much fluid can cause harder shifts (solenoids operating with slightly higher pressure), though opinions vary on that. Getting the right Aisin or Toyota fluid is key amd somebody able to work on Toyota’s with software to watch the oil temp. Many USB dongles and software (OBD fusion is quite good and popular, search for it please) can show the transmission temp as well.
- In addition I definitely believe the TSB needs to be done by a Toyota dealer, you probably do that first, as it should be relative easy.

All in all I believe it is worth doing as the vehicle is otherwise great and feels super solid build, something you can enjoy for a long long time, possible decades.

Also like to point out that it is a body on frame and heavy duty build so it drives more like a truck compared to other independent suspension unibody SUV’s. Beauty is that any putholes or bad roads are pretty much irrelevant to the 200 series as it is very, very tough. With the body sitting on eight rubber blocks to the frame it can take bad roads for days and days and it does not hurt it. It is also very quiet inside from road noise (though tires play a big role) which I believe is in part to the body on frame setup.

Good luck as despite some challenges or new aspects, I love our 200 series for the otherwise complete package and capabilities it has.

 

[shane431]

Sounds like you got a lemon. I’ll buy it off you for a reduced price due to the transmission issues

 

[Sajan]

A lot of good points already made, just adding some perspective:

- I own a 2021 LC200 from new (Nov 2020) and despite the improved software for the 8 speed from factory, it is not butter smooth from 1 to 2 and especially when slowing down for a 90 degree corner and accelerating again in say neighborhoods. That sometimes also goes with a relative harsh shift back to first gear and a lot of revs and pick up from there. By now my wife and I have adapted to not hit the accelerator as much coming out of those slow corners. This is just a function of a heavy drive train and more so Engine/Gearbox factory “tuning” which seems focussed on longevity (also noticeable when shifting down more than it should with cruise control on) than smoothness.
- Another aspect is some minimal play in the drive shaft splines aka slip yoke. I had at times during these slow corners and 1 to 2 shifts some minor “clunk” from it, until at around 30k miles I greased the driveshafts (please search forum how to do that, especially the driveshafts splines/slip yokes not be overdone or it puts axial pressure on the system). I have repeated that at 42k miles, with current at 46k miles. No more minor clunk in the driveshafts which is a nice improvement. My observation is that from factory (my experience from 5 to 30k miles) the amount of grease is minimal. If you have the space and can work the basics on cars it is worth making this a DIY item. Otherwise have it done with some specific instruction not to overdo the two slip yokes (one grease point on each the front and rear drive shaft).
- In your case I would make sure the transmission fluid gets changed for OEM fluid and that the leveling procedure gets careful and correct applied (needs to be in certain temp window for the level to bet set and the fill plug to be closed). The wrong fluid can directly affect the gearbox solenoids. I also believe to much fluid can cause harder shifts (solenoids operating with slightly higher pressure), though opinions vary on that. Getting the right Aisin or Toyota fluid is key amd somebody able to work on Toyota’s with software to watch the oil temp. Many USB dongles and software (OBD fusion is quite good and popular, search for it please) can show the transmission temp as well.
- In addition I definitely believe the TSB needs to be done by a Toyota dealer, you probably do that first, as it should be relative easy.

All in all I believe it is worth doing as the vehicle is otherwise great and feels super solid build, something you can enjoy for a long long time, possible decades.

Also like to point out that it is a body on frame and heavy duty build so it drives more like a truck compared to other independent suspension unibody SUV’s. Beauty is that any putholes or bad roads are pretty much irrelevant to the 200 series as it is very, very tough. With the body sitting on eight rubber blocks to the frame it can take bad roads for days on days and it does not hurt it. It is also very quiet inside from road noise (though tires play a big role) which I believe is in part to the body on frame setup.

Good luck as despite some challenges or new aspects, I love our 200 series for the otherwise complete package and capabilities it has.

I have noticed what you said in point one.