Kenwood TM-D710 install in my 80

[sl33p3]

So here is a quick, kinda, write up on my radio install in my 80 series. i knew i wanted the display head over the rear view mirror, but in haste/laziness/opportunity i put the display temporarily down on the console. this certainly convinced me after a week i needed to get it up where i could see better. i was all set to do the ram mount rear view mirror method seen in here before, and all set to buy parts, then a buddy made the suggestion of cheaper arms, ala rear view mirror. so i take no credit for the idea, but this is my interpretation and execution. i apologize now for the lack of intermediate pics, i'm not in the habit of taking my camera out there in the heat of the moment of inspiration.

• rear view mirror stalk from a jeep cherokee (pick and pull) any type that has a ball mount at both ends would work here, make sure you get the windshield mounting puck off the windshield too
• small piece of 1/8" lexan for the back plate
• some velcro and rear view mirror windhshield adhesive

break the mirror and remove the stalk from the mirror assembly (convenient at the dimming tilt mech), trim up the mount a little for aesthetics. cut the lexan to the size of the back of the display head. i bonded the original window puck from the cherokee in the gap between the top of my mirror and the edge of the windshield, on the driver side of the existing rearview post. i put a couple pads of super duper velcro on the panel and the back of the display head. last step was to route the display head wire in the headliner. i got lucky with fish tape heading across from the sunroof console down the a pillar to the driver kick board and pulled up the wire no prob. since i wanted the display as far away as i could get it, it was smack in the middle of the driver side visor tab, so that had to go, the tab-ectomy came out ok, but i'd do better next time. the display head on this radio is HUGE, a FT-8800 would take up much less space, but i can't see the kenwood in the rear view with the mirror adjusted like i always would. the main radio unit is screwed to the floor under the driver seat and the mic cable is strainrelieved to the floor so i won't flex the connection everytime i use the mic. mounted the mic holder in one of the change panels on the center console. it's right under your hand with your arm on the center console. since the kewood lets you use a aux speaker for each side of the radio if you choose, i did, both are under the driver dash footwell, one on each knee. it is really nice to tell which radio side is squaking purely by sound location. i used a k400s trunk lip antenna mount on the rear hatch and ran the coax into the existing rubber wiring tube going into the body. there is about 1 extra foot of coax without extension (the S has 13.5' of coax) after getting under the driver seat and attached. ran the two power wires up to my battery terminals (needed a few feet extension to get there).

all in all came out pretty good i think. i am happy. here are pics.

FYI, my big kewnood display face is well within the weight of the original rear mirror. using my finely calibrated SWAG gauge, i expect the mount will hold up beautifully to washboards and other "off road" delights. if one were to use a lighter head like the 8800, it would only be margin, no drooping mounts here! i will be happy to report and findings i have during my lovely 80's use in the future.

final install view from driver seat, head centered over rear view.

View down the center of the vehicle, note the big offset it requires to center over mirror from driver view.

mount up with no radio head

sexy green, pre wire pull shot

i'm sure i forgot to mention something... thanks for playing. -john

 

[jericho]

Looks great! Pretty quick goat thinking with the rear view mirror arm! Might have to steal that idea.

 

[sl33p3]

yeah no button-hooking here, i got the idea from Ali

"have good mash-pitting!"

Looks great! Pretty quick goat thinking with the rear view mirror arm! Might have to steal that idea.

 

[sl33p3]

more musings....

the main reason for my direct window attachment of the stalk instead of at the rear mirror mount screws (like Ash did with his same junkyard mount in the style of the RAM mount theme) was to get the radio as far from my face as possible. both strategies have their pros and cons IMHO. i had to clip the visor tab, but i like the radio farther away and am ok with a quick easy visor mod. if you notice in my pics, the face of my radio mount is in the same plane as where the base of the mount would have been (ie right under the mirror mount screws). this is almost 3" farther away which doesn't sound like much till you sit in the driver seat.

the stalks we got from the junkyard are ~1.5" ball center to ball center, VERY similar to the A size ram mount if you were concerned with the differences...

overall i am very pleased with the sturdiness of the mirror stalks in general (makes sense given how close in mass the display heads are compared to the mirror you removed), i'll shake it down more this weekend...

no matter how you slice it, i love the display up high. the only place i think it would be even more functional to use while driving would be on the dash right over the steering wheel, but i refuse to clutter that part of my view for now. and don't want it to stick out that much, i like sleek and stealthy, and will go to stupid lengths at times to get closer to it. to each his own, hope any of this rambling helps. i've learned un fathomable nuggets from this place.


-john

 

[sl33p3]

revised mount. got rid of velcro plate... now using factory head unit attachment, modified of course . its finally the way i want it.

basically cut the plastic part off the mirror end of the stalk (it is just molded into a groove on the ball piece), leaving the aluminum button that has the ball part. so you have a nice flat end to work with. i drilled and tapped and used flat head screws (the radio bracket needs flush or it will interfere wen you try to put the head on).

 

[terrx]

Looks good. Are you going to mount the GPS near the head unit too ? I'm curious to see the rest of the install - where did you put the radio ?

 

[sl33p3]

for right now, my gps is a garmin gpsmap 60cx i typ have stuck to the lowerleft windshield right above the dashboard. i need to make the cable to go between it and the display unit plug. i don't typically leave it (garmin) in the truck, so i'm going to try hooking it up but i may just end up going the greenlight labs gps route... not sure yet.

the main unit mounting braket is screwed to the floor under the driver seat, tucked way forward but if i go to midget mode and slide the seat all the way up (it is always ALL the way back) i can just get to the back panel of the radio for programming, SWR testing etc. the k400S ant mount (10.5' of cable) has about an extra foot is all when routed from my back hatch. so a radio any farther forward or much else would require an extension. i didn't put the main unit in the rear quarter since i was concerned about dirt and heat, etc. the mic cord also plugs directly into the main unit, so if you get fancy you'll def have to extend it. mine pokes out under the seat right between seat and console and i pull the coil to talk, ever so slightly... i have the base of the cable strain-relieved so i'm not yanking on that plug.

 

[terrx]

Under the seat seems better than the rear quarter as long as it gets decent cooling. That greenlight labs GPS or something else that mounts up close to the head would make a nice install. Are you going to run uiview?

 

[adalnay]

I'm thinking of getting the same mobile but I am torn between the Yaesu FT-350 and the Kenwood. How do you like the APRS feature? Have you tried the APRS feature outside of the city (i.e remote areas)? I'm curious to reception APRS reception you are getting. I'm new to APRS so I sorry if my questions are remedial.

 

[sl33p3]

Under the seat seems better than the rear quarter as long as it gets decent cooling. That greenlight labs GPS or something else that mounts up close to the head would make a nice install. Are you going to run uiview?

yeah i agree. it has good airflow around it under there, no clutter and no heater vent blowing (directly) on it. as for UIView, i think i'll try it once i get the laptop mount in there. for right now i'm really just receiving the local digipeater traffic and viewing on the radio.

I'm thinking of getting the same mobile but I am torn between the Yaesu FT-350 and the Kenwood. How do you like the APRS feature? Have you tried the APRS feature outside of the city (i.e remote areas)? I'm curious to reception APRS reception you are getting. I'm new to APRS so I sorry if my questions are remedial.

ok, grab your coffee, i got mine and i don't want to drive to work yet

i think you are asking about two different things right? one is APRS function in the radio, the other reception, only the first is really yaesu or kenwood specific. i haven't used a FT-350 to get a feel for their radio aprs interface is like (ie no laptop). for the kenwood, i guess i have no complaints on the interface but i'm kinda just lurking in APRS right now, haven't "used" it for anything but checking some local weather station TX, etc.

the other difference between the two radios will be GPS integration, if you are interested in sending your position as a regular update, and not from a laptop with gps, it is likely you want a GPS plugged directly into it. i do believe the two vary there... and if someone knows more correct me (i'm no expert, just for a while). my understanding is: if you want to use gps directly into the unit (ie no laptop) you are stuck buying yaesu's gps module. there is a greenlight labs gps module that is very purpose built and slick for the kenwood. you can also check out the AVmap $$$ and i know garmin will plug in with the right cable (kenwood really just needs NMEA strings) i believe they will both take chatter from your laptop with a gps plugged into it.

as for reception and remote areas. that is wholly dependent on the digipeater network around you (and somewhat on antenna and transmit power of radio setup). APRS uses digipeaters, and i'll simplify "digipeater" to anything that can listen and retransmit APRS packets, most are stationary, like repeaters, but they don't have to be (tech my radio could relay other peoples packets if they request the "temp" string) but all APRS uses the same frequency... we are lucky in NM to have a BA megalink repeater network and this typical coverage extends to digipeaters (they do not have to be the same thing as voice repeaters, and i can think of several in range of my house that are not) whoda thunk nerds like NM, guess i'm here too . all of my research has been into recieveing and transmitting data, most always geared towards position, but the P stands for packet, not just position. there is so much more power in APRS then just me with my gps pinging 'peaters. for Wx, to SAR and disaster info, to email and messaging...

HTH

 

[1911]

Have you tried the APRS feature outside of the city (i.e remote areas)? I'm curious to reception APRS reception you are getting. I'm new to APRS so I sorry if my questions are remedial.

I beaconed APRS for a week solid on a trip in the back country of southern Utah (Dugway, Combs Ridge, Abajo Mountains, Dark/Mule/etc. Canyons, Beef Basin, and Needles District of Canyonlands) last year and was surprised how many beacons made it out to the internet. And using only a 1/2-wave antenna from the spare tire mount of my 40 at that. Basically, down in the canyon bottoms 2m is not getting out very easy, it does not bounce off of rock like 70cm will. But outside of the canyons it worked surprisingly well. It helps in southern Utah that there are permanent digipeaters up high in the Abajo Mountains and Navajo Mountain, etc.

On the road trip there and back, it just depended on how many digipeaters were semi-local to my route. Some small towns had an APRS-station ham operator and some larger ones did not. I just got back from a weekend trip in the Texas Hill Country and found the same thing - not getting out of the river bottoms, but OK elsewhere.

It's pretty cool when your family and friends can see where you are in the middle of nowhere, on google maps on the internet.

 

[sl33p3]

I beaconed APRS for a week solid on a trip in the back country of southern Utah (Dugway, Combs Ridge, Abajo Mountains, Dark/Mule/etc. Canyons, Beef Basin, and Needles District of Canyonlands) last year and was surprised how many beacons made it out to the internet. And using only a 1/2-wave antenna from the spare tire mount of my 40 at that. Basically, down in the canyon bottoms 2m is not getting out very easy, it does not bounce off of rock like 70cm will. But outside of the canyons it worked surprisingly well. It helps in southern Utah that there are permanent digipeaters up high in the Abajo Mountains and Navajo Mountain, etc.

On the road trip there and back, it just depended on how many digipeaters were semi-local to my route. Some small towns had an APRS-station ham operator and some larger ones did not. I just got back from a weekend trip in the Texas Hill Country and found the same thing - not getting out of the river bottoms, but OK elsewhere.

It's pretty cool when your family and friends can see where you are in the middle of nowhere, on google maps on the internet.

cool, good data points! i need to hook up my gps so i can start "mapping" some coverage areas when i'm out playing (just need to make my cable). will get the deathvalley trip in march at the latest.


70cm bounces better? i've always been curious about wavelength vs terrain selection... haven't conducted any testing

 

[terrx]

yeah i agree. it has good airflow around it under there, no clutter and no heater vent blowing (directly) on it. as for UIView, i think i'll try it once i get the laptop mount in there. for right now i'm really just receiving the local digipeater traffic and viewing on the radio.

Yes it didn't look like you transmitted yet; I looked earlier on findu and didn't see any position reports. I'm sure you know it already but you can manually enter a position and send a single beacon. It's a good way to test if unsure. The older D700's (what I have) used an outdated path setting by default. I don't know if the D710 is the same. Check the path is something reasonable like WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 or else digipeaters and igates might ignore you. Then check findu. Or aprs.fi is good too.

APRS is great when traveling in a group and if it's integrated with a mapping GPS or a laptop. We use it every trip and can see exactly where each rig is, whether it's stopped or moving. Well at least those that have radios & aprs. As long as the leader and last rig have it we know where everyone is. The other thing that's pretty cool is that the leader can mark a point where they turn so the followers a few miles back will know when they get there. It's a little geeky but in the desert, at night, etc. it works good.

 

[sl33p3]

Yes it didn't look like you transmitted yet; I looked earlier on findu and didn't see any position reports. I'm sure you know it already but you can manually enter a position and send a single beacon. It's a good way to test if unsure. The older D700's (what I have) used an outdated path setting by default. I don't know if the D710 is the same. Check the path is something reasonable like WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 or else digipeaters and igates might ignore you. Then check findu. Or aprs.fi is good too.

APRS is great when traveling in a group and if it's integrated with a mapping GPS or a laptop. We use it every trip and can see exactly where each rig is, whether it's stopped or moving. Well at least those that have radios & aprs. As long as the leader and last rig have it we know where everyone is. The other thing that's pretty cool is that the leader can mark a point where they turn so the followers a few miles back will know when they get there. It's a little geeky but in the desert, at night, etc. it works good.

yeah i think i entered it once, used -1 suffix. i do have "home" entered as a static point, pinging it once at first install to see and i successfully saw it on aprs.fi. it might have purged by now? i am set on wide-2.

i totally get the convoy group stuff... it just takes the crew you are with to have it. we have a few hams in our club, but to my knowledge i am the only one with any kind of implemented APRS setup, although 1911 is pretty set too, just don't see him in TX i really dig the fact you guys have a group that can coordinate that way, the AVmap and the kenwood would be primo setup for that kind of stuff for sure (if you weren't all laptop)! and i dig geeky

-cheers

 

[adalnay]

Thanks for the thorough explanation on APRS. I'm really interested in APRS which prompted me to get my HAM license. I like the capability to send messages and emails via your ham without your cellphone. Plus the beacon feature beats the product SPOT which requires a yearly subscription.

 

[sl33p3]

Thanks for the thorough explanation on APRS. I'm really interested in APRS which prompted me to get my HAM license. I like the capability to send messages and emails via your ham without your cellphone. Plus the beacon feature beats the product SPOT which requires a yearly subscription.

np, happy to help. i've learned a lot with google and some presistance. fwiw, the kenwood's aprs manuals are written by one of the aprs gurus, bob bruninga, it reads like he was heavily involved with the design of the kenwood, at least at a high level... head to kenwoods site and you can download a few diff pdfs of their manuals, they have one specific to the 710 and aprs operation. i highly recommend reading the 710s aprs function as well as the 350's manuals to get a feel for what you are in store for between the two. i like yaesu, my handheld is one and i know many happy friends with them (mostly 8800's and non aprs), but for my preference and my specific app i went with kenwood, shrug.

as for relying on APRS in unknown areas, well that is risky, something to be said for birds over head if you ever really thought you'd need it. if you know where you go and can hit digis, well then it IS mighty slick.

 

[1911]

70cm bounces better? i've always been curious about wavelength vs terrain selection... haven't conducted any testing

Yeah the shorter wavelength does better voice commo in canyons and even in city skyscrapers, if there is anyone else out there to hear you. There is a national 70cm frequency (445.925 MHz I believe) dedicated to APRS but I've never tried to beacon on it - there are so very few 70cm repeaters where I am now that I never play with it.

... the AVmap and the kenwood would be primo setup for that kind of stuff...

That's what I'm running now. I have the standard message set to broadcast a simplex frequency (on the other side of the radio) that someone can call me on while I'm driving - it's actually happened a couple of times, including the last time I was in NM.

 

[terrx]

That's what I'm running now. I have the standard message set to broadcast a simplex frequency (on the other side of the radio) that someone can call me on while I'm driving - it's actually happened a couple of times, including the last time I was in NM.

That's cool, I've done that too but never made any contact that way. Usually I start scanning other channels and repeaters after a while.

Have you seen WB4APR's recommendations on "voice alert" ?
http://www.aprs.org/VoiceAlert3.html

Basically it uses the data band for making initial voice contact when someone is in simplex range, and leaves the second band free to work repeaters or other things. If someone does make contact on the data band then you move the conversation over to the second band.

 

[sl33p3]

That's cool, I've done that too but never made any contact that way. Usually I start scanning other channels and repeaters after a while.

Have you seen WB4APR's recommendations on "voice alert" ?
http://www.aprs.org/VoiceAlert3.html

Basically it uses the data band for making initial voice contact when someone is in simplex range, and leaves the second band free to work repeaters or other things. If someone does make contact on the data band then you move the conversation over to the second band.

the voice alert is cool. i have mine set that way, as well as broadcast tag whatever other frequency on the other band at the time of beacon is. three cheers for freeing up the other side of your radio till it matters.

 

[1911]

Have you seen WB4APR's recommendations on "voice alert" ?
http://www.aprs.org/VoiceAlert3.html

Basically it uses the data band for making initial voice contact when someone is in simplex range, and leaves the second band free to work repeaters or other things. If someone does make contact on the data band then you move the conversation over to the second band.

[Johnny Carson voice] I did not know that!

Thanks, I will have to set mine up that way too.