Turbo 3B buildup

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magnus_heydoc

magnus_heydoc

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Dec 10, 2003
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Ok so years ago I started thinking that I'd like to put a turbo on my 90hp 3B so I began thinking about parts.
The first thing I found literally from a fire sale from a nice guy in Sask. was a manifold from an AXT turbo kit.
The next thing was to find a turbo. In this case the T3 flange on the AXT needs a match so some of the newer Saab turbos are out. I wanted everything to just bolt up and not need adapters. (As you'll see I needed one anyway.)
At any rate a foreign car garage guy had a turbo from a 740 Volvo he was parting out so I got it for 100 bucks.
AXTturbo manifold.webp
TD05 badge.webp
 
TD05

As far as I can tell the TD05 comes from a B230FT 4cyl. 2.3L volvo motor. Basically, from what I've gathered any smaller turbo charged gas motor will work pretty well on a 3B. So I'm hoping this one will be fine.
When we loosely fit things together it's clear the TD05 needs an adapter as both flanges are threaded and just the way everything mates up there's no way to get all the bolts or even studs in.
When we mocked things up to leave the center section in the right orientation without loosening the V band and exhaust housing the angle adapter was made at about 75-80 degrees.
TD05 cleaner!.webp
Turbo flange and adapter.webp
 
polished and in place.

Here's a shot or two of everything in place more or less. With the turbo on the adapter it turns out that it was high enough but the cold scroll pointed up a little bit and barley touched the hood when it closed; that section needed to turn 15-20 degrees.
When we took off the big snap ring it came appart nicely and revealed I need a new O-ring. I really don't know where I'll get one in our little one horse town but we'll see. There's a notch to keep it indexed in place so another notch was added to move that scroll about 20 degrees.
More pics and posts later.......................
polished angle adapter& manifold .webp
angle adapter.webp
 
looking good. your gonna love the power.
 
Congrats. I theink I used the same turbo. Get ready to lose about 6 seconds of you 0 - 60 time.
 
oil lines.

I worked on the oil lines today.
I've upgraded my alternator to an industrial 155 amp version without a vacuum pump requiring oil feed and return. So I've got a decent feed but the return line is on the small side and I didn't want to risk it not being adequate.
The feed line for the vacuum pump was in a smallish line with a smallish banjo and the turbo has a bigger line of 10mm or so. To make'em fit with one line my friend took a barb from a 3/8 fitting and brazed it to the small banjo, that way I don't have to use a bunch of reducers etc. etc.

For the oil return I got lucky as the turbo ended up mounted high enough that we used the valve cover for a return oil dumping ground. It saved some work as I've never taken off the oil pan and it would be at the very least messy.
'new' banjo hose barb.webp
valve cover 'nippleage'.webp
oil drain.webp
 
Thats certainly convenient, but didn't I read somewhere that you need a couple inches of vertical drop in the hose immediately after the turbo? Or did I make that up? :hhmm:
 
drain

I had a better pic of the drain but deleted it. The turbo is a bit in the way of the centre section but it does drop a couple inches. I'm going with it so I guess time will tell. The drain is also oriented almost straight down which is better than being off to the side.
 
compression

Ok so before everyone flames the guys at the garage I do my work at you must realize these guys are mullet V8 chevy types and not diesel types let alone toyota types of guys............
They keep mentioning the difference in compression in a NA vs. a turbo motor. They seem to think that if I simply put a turbo in place and jam a lot of pressure in a higher compression motor that something has to give. Now in my case I spent my education in science and didn't really get the chance for shop class when in jr high or high school, I keep telling those guys that this is my go at shop class! I'm not an engine builer or have I any experience buildign engines. At any rate the only thing I can tell'em is that the 3B is built with robust internals and that many guys have done this build successfully, dozens actually. I can only recall reading about one guy blowing things up.

Can anyone comment on the real answer? Maybe they have the same compression? I'm led to believe that a 13BT would be different from a 3B wrt compression but a manual I have does say the 3B, 2H, 13Bt & 12HT all call for the same compression when doing a compression test.
Ultimately, I'm led to believe from what I've read here on the forums........actually, more accurately it's what I haven't read, nobody ever mentions the difference in compression b/t a turbo and non turbo engine.
What is the real explanation?
 
Compression ratio seem to be an important consideration when turboing gas enginse, but nobody ever seems to mention it when turboing diesels.
 
KOOTENAY KRUZER said:
Compression ratio seem to be an important consideration when turboing gas enginse, but nobody ever seems to mention it when turboing diesels.
Click to expand...

To simplify it, engine efficiency goes up as compression ratio goes up, so everyone diesel OR gas would love to have as high of a compression ratio as possible. There is the obvious limitation of the physical strength of the engine, but for gassers the limiting factor is that, at some compression ratio, the fuel will ignite before TDC (e.g. a knock, or detonation). Diesels don't have this problem because they don't inject fuel until at-or-near TDC anyway, and spontateous combustion is exactly what they WANT to happen!

Usually when you turbo a gasser you drop the compression ratio and start running higher octane fuel, both of which make it less likely to "ping"/"knock" whatever you want to call it. A diesel, again, is supposed to have the fuel blow up spontaneously, so there is no need to lower compression.

It is true, however, that turbos add stress. In terms of adiabatic cylinder pressure alone, cold 3B cylinder pressures are near 430psi (e.g. factory compression spec). Add a turbo at 14.7 pounds of boost, and this doubles it, to 860psi. That would be the pressure present just prior to the additional of fuel in the stroke, on a cold motor - thats not very realistic in terms of comparing the overall peak stress on the components, though, since even the NA engine likely gets well above 430psi when fuel is dumped in; I suspect that large differences in burn rate and fuel ratio when turbo'd actually mitigate the difference somewhat. Certainly output torque is a good indicator, I think the plots from Turboglide or AXT showed ~50% more torque? I'd reasonably ballpark that to ~50% higher cylinder pressures.
 
one thig when dealing with a turbocharged engine is
less compression ratio means more room in the cylinder for air and fuel
3B being a N/A precup engine has a pretty high compression ratio
the 13BT has less...... im not sure what the exact numbers are
 
coming on fine

Worked on putting things together; new studs for the turbo were 11 bucks each! (x3).

My situation has a wrinkle as I run SVO so I worked on some coolant plumbing of a new heat exchanger as well.
Wiring had to be moved b/c of hot exhaust so I've been soldering and cleaning up wiring.
Next is an intake and the coolant lines to the turbo and it's pretty much ready to go. I plan to start it up and test tonight.

I'm wondering how running SVO will change the fuel situation? It burns nearly the same as dino diesel, possibly 5% less power. I'm thinking I may turn up the fuel a bit when I get a pyro installed.
The wastegate begins to open at 5lbs. and fully opens at 10lbs according to a bench test. It'll end up being 7-9 lbs. on the truck.
Turbo mounted.webp
oil feed line.webp
 
first tests

Here's a pic of the final set up.

The wastegate opens fully giving about 50 kpa of boost. With the vacuum hose disconnected the turbo produces about 100 kpa of boost.
I'm enjoying the new power. It's revitalized an old motor.
The 3B should have been turbo in the first place.

Now my old rig is ready for surf season!
final set up.webp
 
new gauges

Here's the new gauges in a somewhat temporary set up. I'll clean them up later.

Boost is in kpa which is sort of wierd. My other boost gauge on my car is also an HKS brand but it is in bar units. Most seem to function in psi. kpa is ok though as 100 kpa is approx. 1 bar or 1 atmosphere (14.7 psi).

My rig runs b/t 200-400 kpa of oil pressure.

Temp always seems to run around 90 celcius.

I'm just waiting for the EGT fitting in the mail.............

(the bigger blue lettered one is my tach.)
new gauges.webp
 
it's been a while.............

So here's the latest.
First off I had the exhaust plumbed pretty much straight back on the pass. side and out by the rear wheel. There's nothing but a straight pipe as the turbo mitigates the loudness. It's throaty and tolerable on the highway.
I've disconnected the wastegate just to see what that TD05 will put out and it turns out it puts out just below 100Kpa which is around 14.5lbs.
With the fuel at the stock settings I achieve just over 300C as far as EGTs are concerned under load. I recently turned up the fuel and got a nice power increase and a notable increase in the smooth factor. EGTs max out at about 485C. (EGT readings are pre turbo).
I've been on several road trips to the coast for surf and back (1200-1300kms round trip) and the truck works extremely well. No more shifting down into 3rd and chugging up the big hills. Now I can take on most hills in 5th and only sometimes need 4th.
I cruise at about 70mph @2600rpm @70-80Kpa of boost. Max boost is accomplished at 2800-3000rpm.
I've tinkered with the fuel but could never approach the high EGTs that some memebrs note. Maybe I've not turned it up enough! One thing I did note is that my mileage was poor with the fuel turned up, so I turned it down some and still have lots of power and about 20-22mpg (mostly on grease)
Aaron
 
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