Coolant overflow

[robertaleon]

Towing a 3000# trailer over sierras and stop in fernly,nv and find coolant on ground - maybe a tablespoon. Temps are ok 190-200 and power ok. Further stops don't show that coolant is overflowing iw boiling over. Thoughts? Too much coolant in system?

 

[kbushnz]

Possibility overflow bottle has too much coolant in it from cold and the extra work it had towing got her a little hotter than normal and hence more water into overflow bottle.
The overflow bottle should not be full when cold.
1/3 to 1/2 is a good start.
I would check overflow bottle next time you get her nice and hot.
See that its not overflowing.

 

[robertaleon]

It was over filled but thing got worse so here's a tip for folks. Our temps continued to get worse while wheeling......220+ and saw the analog gauge start moving close to red. Eased it back to camp and found that the suck tube from the bottle had disconnect and was not bringing coolant back into the system at cool down. Now I was left with a bunch of air. Spent the next hour putting a hose clamp on tube and burping the system with about 1/2 gallon of coolant/water mix. Ugh!!! All good and getting 194 degrees while climbing trails but driving around is about 188. Keep track of your bottle plumbing too!!!!!!

 

[robertaleon]

So after purging the air we thought we had the problem solved but I have a different issue. While highway driving and air temps around 50F, my temps started shooting up rapidly after driving 30 minutes. We shut the truck down, and waited for it to cool a bit. What I'm noticing is my radiator is nearly going dry and my overflow tank is filling up. If I empty the tank back into the radiator so that the overflow is filled to the "full" line, my radiator is nearly topped off. Temps come down and everything seems to be ok (temps around 180-190F). But the problem is that my radiator is not sucking coolant back in after cool down. tubes are clear from tank to radiator but I've noticed brown sludge on the tube in the overflow container, and sludge around the radiator cap. No HG bubbles at startup. I cleaned up the radiator cap but sludge particles come back. This is a OEM radiator cap on a Koyo radiator. Could this be a problem? Source of sludge?

 

[aussie80]

source of sludge is usually in need of coolant flush and change. If all the plumbing is corrrect, with no pin holes, cracks, etc it has to be the radiator cap. As long as the radiator is specifically for your vehicle i can't see a genuine cap creating issues

 

[CJF]

the problem is that my radiator is not sucking coolant back in after cool down.

That's a simple tubing, or radiator cap problem, period.

You sure you've got all the plumbing at the overflow junction installed correctly? The overflow cap is not a simple "tee" fitting.

 

[robertaleon]

CJF - can you elaborate on the comment "it's not a normal tee fitting"? If I blow back back towards the radiator from the draw-tube with thumb over the overflow elbow (part where it spits if over filled) I get air back at the radiator fill neck. Is there a better test? With all the junk on it I'm thinking the spring is not working properly on the cap to allow coolant back into the radiator at cool-down.

 

[robertaleon]

So i performed two backflushes, two Prestone rad superflushes, two distilled flushes, and filled with 50/50. same problem and still have dirty rad cap even though all six flushes above result in clear discharge. Put on new cap from O'reilly's (hecho in Israel) and problem persists - reservoir fills and radiator top fins exposed. Replace with new Napa cap (hecho in Mexico) and problem persists. Replace with Toyota cap and new tube and clamps from neck to reservoir tank, problem persists.

I finally get bold enough to just watch radiator tank neck while truck warms up........blup, blup blup, blup blup blup. I'm 99% sure I lost the HG war. PO claims the HG was replaced prior to my inherited 210K but I doubt it as no paperwork to show that.

Contacted IdahoDoug for the DVD already.

Any way this is not a blown head gasket?

 

[BrotherRob]

Contrary to popular opinion, 2nd HGs can and do fail. It's impossible to confirm on the web. Your next test should be the radiator hydrocarbon test, the kit is available at Autozone. Good luck.

 

[LINUS]

Contrary to popular opinion, 2nd HGs can and do fail. It's impossible to confirm on the web. Your next test should be the radiator hydrocarbon test, the kit is available at Autozone. Good luck.

I must have missed it, did he state (jump in OP - HG swapped?) that he was running a replacement HG?

No arguement from me that it's possible to pop a 2nd gasket (improper install, bad parts, flat cooking the motor in hotspots the temp guage doesn't see, endless possibilities really)

I'd do a HC test too - my experience with 1FZ gasket is the coolant to combustion chamber, so this test is the "quick & dirty" to see if you go buy a lottery ticket or a 6 pack & asprin.

You getting sweet smelling exhaust on startup (if running antifreeze currently)?

Generous steam on startup - especially after periods of rest & at low humidity conditions?

Knock sensors tossing codes at the "check engine" light?

Can you post a pic of the sludging in a accurate color? Volume?

Getting any "milky" oil on the dipstick? Under the oil filler cap?

I don't want to overly scare you, but I popped my headgasket about 300 miles after doing a powerflush on my coolant system just trying to get rid of a green coolant that had a bit of blue/purple tinting in it so I could just go back to real Toy red - I had a original design gasket & was getting a bit of white/grey sludge in the bottom of my overflow bottle I know/was taught to be a sign of exhaust gas solids migrating into the coolant & a early warning that a HG is getting ready to give you drama.

The good news is if you are popping a gasket the current 1FZ gasket is a redesigned one that gives far greater rates of reliability, if you need to go down that road. Some will even call OE headgaskets a PM item & after my experience I agree if you haven't gotten a "lucky Monday motor" & put ~1/4 million or more miles on it.

We all have our own opinions there & I'm sure someone will read that & say "Yer an idiot to pull a working gasket" - I venture it's all in how you view your motor & your expectations for reliability from your 80.

I've been shown more than one headgasket that is given an update due to the dis-similar rates a motor heats up - the "ends" heat a slight bit slower than the area inbetween cylinders since the inner areas are essentially bookended by heat sources where the endcaps aren't & have some extra metal on the endcaps too.

The fatal spot on headgaskets is almost always the endcap cylinders, due to above explanation, and the guys who taught me that weren't surprised when I brought my worn out headgasket to work & it was as they were betting. #6 cyl combustion chamber to cooling jacket, like everyone else.

HTH - and you might be golden, the good power thing doesn't sound like a fully blown gasket - that HC test will tell you everything though.

 

[BrotherRob]

PO claims the HG was replaced prior to my inherited 210K but I doubt it as no paperwork to show that.

Yes, the OP did state that the PO claimed to have done the HG. It's a moot point if it's failed again.

 

[robertaleon]

You getting sweet smelling exhaust on startup (if running antifreeze currently)?

Generous steam on startup - especially after periods of rest & at low humidity conditions?

Knock sensors tossing codes at the "check engine" light?

Can you post a pic of the sludging in a accurate color? Volume?

Getting any "milky" oil on the dipstick? Under the oil filler cap?

#1 - yes and running coolant 50/50 Green
#2 - yes, early morning is worse but tapers off
#3 - no, no CELs, but we can talk about my Ford's CELs if you like....
#4 - Check my next post for coolant sludge
#5 - no, no milky oil, always amber - I change every 2000 miles or so

 

[robertaleon]

Drum roll please...............................................

We have a failed HG (see pic #1). That's two tests and the sample no longer looks like the original test fluid.

As far as coolant sludge, here is a bad pic of my latest Toyota cap with sludge on inner seal (pic #2).

Now just waiting for IdahoDoug to respond to my PM on DVD availability.

Now I'm reading that folks are spending about $1000 in parts and machine shop for this job. Can anyone "ball park" a straight HG replacement from dealer, Mudrak (left a VM), Valley Hybrids or the like? I'd like to do it myself but the time vs. $$$ factor is a bit variable depending on projects and honey-do lists.

 

[BrotherRob]

That sucks, good luck with the repair.

 

[CycloSteve]

Sorry to hear about the rig letting go of the HG. At least it didn't happen out on the road somewhere remote and far from home.

Not sure about the cost of just doing the HG, but whatever you think you will spend add at least 50%. For many of us this becomes an exercise of "while you are in there" fixes. Not that this is a bad thing, just be prepared for a few other items to crop-up when you have the rig torn down for the HG job.



Steve

 

[LINUS]

Yep, sorry too you lost the HG - the silver lining to this cloud is that should you order parts from C-Dan here in the forums, you're garanteed to get the updated design HG & it seems to be a "money in the bank" fix - so once it's properly done, this should be the last HG job you do until it's time to get in there for piston rings or something of that sort, a good couple 100K away.....so it's not all bad.

If you do order from Dan, it's as simple as a phone call & telling him the situation - he has this down to a science & will probably recommend some extra parts if your a "just do it all once" -type guy (I am).

I chose to do mine myself as it's pretty much what I do for a paycheck & I trust my own work - plus it's not overly difficult especially with a FSM to work from (Doug hadn't made the DVD yet - knowing Doug I'm sure it's worthwhile though) - the motor is friendly to work on (just the bolt on the backside of the head you need a Gearwrench for is the only exception) & the indexing is the best I've seen to date on any motor I've had open, in case you have any worries in that dept.

I bought alot of extras when I did mine (I even did a brass 3 row FJ80 radiator at that time, something you might inquire about if towing is a routine thing for you - it's a simple drop-in & it tamed my motor temp spikes towing over the Cascades since doing it), but my machining was kept to a minimum - IIRC I had a couple thousands removed on a high spot of my head, and got the valve seats cut fresh & the bill was ~$200-$300 (going off memory some 8 years ago).

Seems guys report something like $2500 for a dealer to do the job, no frills getting it fixed or brass radiator - if paying for the work is what you choose, see if any of the reputable guys with 1FZ experience are within your area - Robbie/Powderpig is well enough known people fly him around to do their work - he's a Slee employee if you're close to CO.

If you know any local guys with 80's, ask them who they use for service - while the Toy dealer is an option, it seems like an expensive choice especially if you have a mechanic who is well versed in the 1FZ-FE anywhere close to you, plus the independant guys wouldn't mind like a dealer if you leave the box of repair parts in the trunk. Plus the money you save buying your own parts can get you that radiator, or leave $ to overhaul the EGR setup so you never learn about engine code PO401, or whatever looks suspect while you / your guy is in there.

 

[robertaleon]

HG replacement is underway in Elk Grove