Warn Endurance 12.0 install on an ARB

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Ugggggghhhh
Picked up a a Warn Endurance 12.0 for a deal too good to pass up. Just got done installing it behind the ARB on the LX450 (already on the vehicle) and thought I would leave a few notes for the next person doing this. Sorry for no pics as I don't have a camera anymore, but if I do soon, I can take some if anyone is interested.

Note that the winch DOES NOT bolt right up to the ARB like most other Warn winches. Though the bolt pattern is the same as thoe old ones, 10x4.5", the winch is longer than other models. This causes the motor housing to contact the inside of the angled portion on the ARB. The winch will only fit if it is spaced about 1/2" back from the mounting surface on the bumper.

1. Decide how you want to space the mount. The easiest way would be to use nuts or spacers to standoff the winch. I was a little dubious about this due to what happened to the 12.0 in the Overland Journal winch test (the non factory mounting plate caused the case to rip apart and destroy the winch). I called the tech people at Warn and they said standing the winch off was ok as long as the mounting points are not allowed to spread. I elected beef and made my own spacer plate out of 1/2" steel. I carefully drilled 3/8" holes for the bolt pattern and cut out the center section slightly bigger than the fairlead cutout on the ARB.

2. Decide how you want to mount the solenoid box. The box is very big, but it will fit in the stock location with a little bit of interference with the body rail that runs below the grill. The rail will bend to accomodate, or you can cut it out before installing. Neither method can be seen behind the ARB. If you do leave the box in the stock location, the remote control plug in will be hard to get to. I just left it in place, its not that big a deal.

3. Before mounting the winch (I managed to do it without a hoist or helper, but it was very hard) make sure that the solenoid box is unbolted from the winch (it can stay hooked to the wires, just don't pinch them). Ensure the cooling inlet and exhaust elbows are tight and make sure they point back toward the radiator when in the mounted position. If you want to use hose clamps to ensure they are sealed, the hoses should be connected too, though they will get in the way alot while setting the winch in place. Once it is in place, you will not be able to get to any of this. It might also be a good idea to consider using metal elbows sourced from a hardware store rather than the supplied plastic ones.

4. Once in place, you can push the hoses on and bolt up the solenoid box. Both reqire small hands and alot of cussing.

5. A good place to mount the fan is right next to where the air filter box connects to the fender. On mine, I mounted it to the back of the backup battery tray, leaving a perfect place to run the wires along the fender and the cooling tube underneath the tray.

6. Like all Warn winches, the fairlead needs to be drilled to fit the ARB. I wasn't sure how until I ran into Eric's "Don't drill the bumper" thread. Still, the measurements were missing, so I figured them out and here they are for future reference:

The 1/2" holes need to be drilled 7/8" from the outside edge, and 3-3/4" down from the top edge. This puts them 1-3/8" down (on center) from the hole that is already there.

Also of note, I don't know if all Warn's fairleads nowadays are like this, but mine came with C-clips holding on the roller axles rather than bolts. I would personally rather have bolts so I can use the upper fairlead truss on the ARB as an extra attachment point since the two new attachment holes are much lower on the fairlead and no longer centered.


Overall I'm pretty happy with the winch, mostly because of the price and how much speed and power it has. It's also very light, and should have a longer duty cycle with the cooling fan. However, there are quite a few things I don't like about it, and honestly I wouldn't reccommend this winch unless you can find a killer deal:

-install is a PITA
-only 80' of line fits on the drum
-the drum material is very thin
-synthetic line cannot be used
-the case is weak and has strict mounting requirements
-the cooling system is kinda hokey and just one more thing to go wrong
-the fan and hose system is plastic
-if the hose system were to leak, water would get directly into the motor

I guess time will tell how the winch performs. I will keep y'all posted.
 
interesting

so this is not an M12 with a fan added, then? it's significantly different (case etc sounds like)?


can you tell us a bit more about the Overland incident issue?
 
No, this winch is much different than the 12k.
-the solenoid assembly is improved
-the solenoid box is better sealed
-the remote has a different unique connector
-it has aluminum crossbars to reinforce the case
-the winch is much lighter, at 64 pounds minus rope

Excertps from Overland Journal Gear Guide 2009:

Initially we mouted the winch to the Ramsey winch plate, which we had already tested to over 12,000 pounds when we tried to stall the 9500 UT. Unfortunately, when the Endurance reached a force of 11,560 pounds, the case casting on the gear side of the winch abruptly fractured and the winch simply came apart. The drum began to separate and twist, fracturing the motor-side sasting, allowing the line to pull the winch (no longer attached to some of the feet) into the front of the plate and the fairlead, bending both of them. We had to cut the anchoring strap from the back of the Jeep to remove the load from the line.

They [Warn] postulated that some sort of deflection in the Ramsey mount - designed, after all, for a 9,500-pound winch - might have caused the failure.

Warn sends them a Warn winch plate designed for the winch, they repeat the test, and the winch does fine after that. EXCEPT...

After the test, we unspooled the rope [3/8" synthetic] and discovered a dent in the drum near the gear guide. Once again we contacted Warn and they informed us that their winch drums are not intended to be used with synthetic rope when the load is in excess of 9,500 pounds.

We have been aware of a phenomenon with synthetic rope that creates a constrictive effect under extreme tension which can damage winch drims.

Other than the failures, the winch did awesome - one of the fastest (second only to the ridiculously fast 8274), by far the lowest amp draw under load (even comapred with 8k and 10k winches), and stayed cool. In fact, under the point system that OJ used for performance, it was by far the best winch. The winners they picked were the 8274 and the Ramsey 9500 UT for value.

So take all that info for what its worth. The 12.0 is a good winch, but I think Warn probably sacrificed too much strictural strength. The OJ tests also had the winch mounted foot down, not foot forward like on an ARB, so I'm willing to bet that my winch will be fine behind my ARB, especially mounted to a 1/2" thick plate.
 
interesting indeed.

I wonder about the foot down issue as a cause. I've talked about that at some length here as being bad wrt to the regular M12 (with some people disagreeing).

Did OJ test the regular M12 too? Maybe that one is stronger structurally then.
 
They didn't. The winches they tested were:
Mile Marker v10
Ramsey Patriot 9500 UT
Superwinch Husky 10
Warn M8274-50
Warn Endurance 12.0

I kinda wish they did the M12k, since that is a pretty common winch for the expedition crowd.
 
your statement
"Other than the failures, the winch did awesome"
is pretty interesting... :)
 
Thanks for the writeup.
I have the 12.0 sitting in a box at my parents waiting to install upon my return to the states.
Actually an ARB expert will do the install.

Why cant synthetic line be used?
 
:D I just spent alot of time and sweat installing this thing; I have to feel good about it somehow.

On one hand, you could say that both failures were due to incorrect useage - using the incorrect winch plate, esp. one that had been used beyond its limits, and using synthetic line. Both are valid excuses, and in my case, I am not going to worry about either because I have wire rope and I have a strong, foot forward winch plate (again, I have to just keep telling myself these things).

On the other hand, you could say that a good winch should be able to perform well beyond its inteded limits and specs. The Ramsey 10k, for example, was run up to 12k with no problems (except that the synthetic rope snapped, so they decided not to push any more of the winches past their limits. This is precisely why the 12.0 won in nearly every category, but wasn't picked as a winner. When we are going to depend on it out in the field, we need it to perform under any circumstance. So even though it DID do awesome on their tests when used as per Warn's specs (good winches shouldn't need disclaimers), I don't really recommend the winch.
 
Why cant synthetic line be used?

Warn says you can use synthetic as long as you use THEIR synthetic :rolleyes: (it has sleeving to protect the bottom layer from heat) and only use the winch up to 9,500 pounds. The drum thickness is thinner than most winches (5mm as opposed to the 8274's 10mm), and since synthetic has less friction, it is able to tighten up under load to the extent that it crushes a thin drum - as evidenced by the OJ test.
 
That makes my decision easier now. I didnt think synthetic would hold up very well in some of the areas I will be playing in. Synthetic would get torn up in a second if I used it to drag a dead critter up a hill. The rocks up there eat tires they are so sharp.
Thanks
 
So this thing got put to use this weekend pulling me out of a rapidly rising stream in the middle of nowhere. Bogged down to the frame in sand and mud. The front tires were on the bank in the sand. The rear tires were completely underwater. I anchored to my spare tire buried under several feet of dirt. Pulled me out just fine.

I have no complaints whatsoever. Behind the ARB, the clutch is easy to get to, I didn't have much trouble getting the remote in, it spooled out easily enough, and it pulled really really hard to get me out of that mess. Its super fast when not under load.

Ok, maybe I have one minor complaint. At 80 feet, the cable is kinda short. Worked fine for me, but in a different situation, I might have needed a winch extension strap or longer cable. Its a good idea to have one anyway, so it doesn't matter much.
 
Have you thought of getting the wireless remote????
That is my plan.
Glad to hear it worked well. I am choosing all my parts mostly on the word of others. Mostly mud members. I feel with all your knowledge I will have a really sweet rig. Once I return to the States I will just have to slap a room full of parts on my baby.
 

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