HHO injection generator results (1 Viewer)

[powderhound]

I am posting this thread for those out there looking for real world results on hydrogen injection system on an old fj60.
I just installed a Magdrive 11a model hho generator on my 82 fj60 with 250k. I live in the middle of the colorado rockies at 8000 ft. The morning starts are always a chore and a prayer. I have to warm it up for 10-15 min every morning just to be operable in subfreezing temps and it smoked like a bitch with unburnt fuel. We are paying over $3.70 for 85 octane here so seeing fuel being wasted out the tale pipe hurts my wallet and the air we breath.

After running 20 gallons of gas with the hho injection, I so far have increased mpg's by 30%. The engine runs smoother than it has ever run and the toxic unburned gas smell from the tailpipe is no more when in the hydrogen mode. The starting is still a chore, but I relate this problem to poor running condition of emissions and carb, as well as a leaking manafold gasket. But this is a good start for a test vehicle since it is not in prime operable condition.

I am making a few more mods such as 33x10.5 at's which will help the rpms at highway speeds over stock without changing diff gears.(should be good for a mpg or two on the highway)
I am also going to desmog since my air pump just @#$ the bed and the hho injection seems to clean up the emissions better than anything stock.
I use Xado engine treatment, which is definately worth the $$. Brings back an old engine to life and the compression back up to spec.
I am also going through all the drivetrain components and will treat them with the Xado for gearboxes so they run more efficiently.

Anyone out there in the Vail/Edwards/Eagle area looking to do the same to there vehicle can see my set-up first hand. It works!

 

[RockDoc]

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out after some more miles... Any change in how strong the engine feels?

Do you have a link for the set-up you are using? How about sharing some photos of the install.

 

[powderhound]

Magdrive is the name of the company. They are out of Atlanta, GA . MagDrive Fuel From H2O - HHO Generators The unit that I am using is the basic 1 cell unit 11a. It uses distilled vinegar as the electrolyte in the cell. You can really see the bubbles pumping until it gets to the a-trap, then it's pure Hydrogen and oxygen gas to the riser plate vacuum intake.
I can really notice a huge difference in how smooth the engine idles on the mix than without. It also runs cooler and cleans out the inside of the carbon build up that running straight petroleum gas. As for more lengthy tests on the interstate will have to wait a few days as I'm waiting on new tires and wheels and a lift kit to come in.
In town driving so far has seen a noticeable difference in smoothness and low end torque. It's still winter up here, so cranking is still a chore, but warm up time is cut in halve with the hho as far as being able to drive without stalling.

 

[RockDoc]

"Here is a simplified explanation on how the systems works in changing water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Let’s start with the water, it should be at least filtered or distilled and a gallon is about the best amount to have prepared for your HHO generator. We call it an HHO generator because it produces both Hydrogen and Oxygen simultaneously thru the process of electrolysis.

When water is introduced with electrical current/voltage [preferably DC] it has a tendency to become excited and divides into its primary elements of Hydrogen and Oxygen. The produced Hydrogen and Oxygen are now in a gaseous state from the liquid water. It’s been said by others that the two elements have been split apart from one another into their sub-diatomic molecular state.

A fallacy out there is that it takes more energy to produce the HHO than the energy it releases. Not at all true, that's why there are HHO generators available out there. You can produce HHO with as little as 1.5 volts DC and an amp of current. It’s not only how it’s done but the way in which the HHO generator is configured to permit a useful out put with minimal power input. You can put 2 bare ended wires into a bucket of water and electrolyte and produce a small quantity of HHO by putting a DC current through the wires. The principle is to produce as much as possible with the least amount of electrical input energy. In reality, once the HHO generator has been charged up it actually acts like a wet cell battery. It holds a charge of 1.5 - 2.0 volts DC and can operate when charged with the power switch turned off, until the remaining suspended HHO gas is pulled off. The power switch is primarily used to maintain the HHO generators charge.

What we do here is draw off that produced gaseous material by vacuum created by the vehicles engine and feed the gasses directly into the engine for combustion purposes. The system is an on demand system, "NOT" a pressurized storage system the HHO generator only produces what the vehicles engine may call for, nothing more.

Can we idle an engine on pure HHO, the answer is absolutely, but to actually operate the vehicle under normal driving conditions the current technology is not quite there yet. Currently most of our users see from 35 - 45% on average concerning fuel savings. But don't think it stops there; the NEW Magnum Series HHO generators are pushing the fuel savings into the upper 60% range. If we keep on working on the problems that hold us from using just HHO long enough we will reach that point where the vehicles fuel tank will become a water reservoir tank for holding just water.

The process is as follows, you start with water and an electrolyte NaHCo3 [Sodium Bicarbonate]. You add DC current, the H2o breaks down into H2 & O [we just call it HHO]. We introduce it into the engine by use of the engines vacuum. The HHO combines with the gasoline and air in the combustion chamber and is burnt. Once burnt, it converts back to H20 [water]. Its now going to absorb the inner heat from the engine normally at 350 - 400*F and turn into super heated steam. Then its pushed out during the exhaust stroke and out the tail pipe. There it condenses back into to water vapor and eventually collects back into water. So you start with water and end with water.

So what are our results, first and foremost a really odorless exhaust. Lowered Co2 emissions, NO2 emissions go almost to 0, In short the exhaust emissions drop off the scale as you know them and you produce water vapor from your vehicles tailpipe. Why vapor instead of water??? Because the hydrocarbon fuel [gasoline] produces enough heat during combustion to keep the burnt HHO in a water vapor state, so it will totally condense into water outside of the exhaust system [eliminating any internal corrosion].

Now you're going to ask, why don't the auto builders or other big corporations utilize this basic technology??? Its against their business model, if I can sell you an automobile that runs on inefficient fuel and promise you better mileage next time. And you haven't any other choices, what are you really going to do? Why is it that the auto builders have to be mandated to improve vehicle mileage? Because they are in bed with the oil producers and the lot of them are in bed with big banking money.

Here is a little tid bit of knowledge for you... This technology has been around since the middle 1800's. YEAH THATS RIGHT!!! Back before the take off of the industrial revolution and the real use of oil and coal to power our factories and vehicles. But oil and coal was easier technology and easily found and CHEAP. GUESS WHAT "NOT ANY MORE"! So if you could gain performance, better fuel efficiency, smaller bills at the gas pump. WOULD YOU DO IT??? Whether you purchase our HHO units or go to a competitor's store or website and purchase theirs. Just as long as you the consumer realize that you have been methodically led into a money pit concerning energy and fuel.
SO NOW, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???"

If that's their explanation of how it works, I call bull****. Conservation of energy won't allow for more out than you put in. I thought maybe there would be an argument about how this "HHO" gas (which turns out to be hydrogen and oxygen in elemental state) makes for a more efficient burn of the gasoline, but their explanation of "how it works" implies the electrolysis and recombination of water yields energy. They don't even use proper terminology and complete spelling.

If one of these systems actually does something, I want to see a sound explanation of how.

 

[Corbet]

Anyone out there in the Vail/Edwards/Eagle area looking to do the same to there vehicle can see my set-up first hand. It works!

I'd like to see it in person. Swing by Avalanche Automotive in Minturn next time your in the area.

 

[powderhound]

If your ever in the edwards, co area I can show you mine and you can see for yourself how simple it is. yes it does work as they say it does. I was sceptical as well, then I called bull**** on it, put my money down and bought one to test in my 250k mile fj60. I don't call it bull**** anymore. It's saving me money at the pump now.
The back up support from the company was prompt and answered all the questions on install I had. I actually talked to the inventor himself and he was able to clear up any questions I had even though he is super busy, he still has support lines open from 10-10 pm for any install problems. They are a ligit company that sells the units all over the world. they make units for truckers up to 15 liter engines. Lots of testimonials on this system. Other systems I would be a bit sceptacle and approach with caution as this is new technology or should I say new to the masses since it's been around in one form or another for over one hundred years. It's just now that it is becoming mainstream with proven units doing real world testing that it can be accepted as a viable addition to an ICE.

 

[powderhound]

Is that the one by mountain roasters coffee?

 

[Corbet]

Is that the one by mountain roasters coffee?

Yes by Vail Coffee Roasters in the Meadow Mountain Business Park.

I'm there tuesday through saturday

 

[Marc311]

Well, I'm with RockDoc, but I'm willing to keep an open mind. Liek RockDoc said, the only way it can work is if it increases the efficiency of the combustion process. The hydrogen alone can in no way be producing the additional energy. But if the hydrogen somehow improves the gasoline combustion process - it would be possible. Strangely, if that is the basis, that part is never articulated anywhere on these hydrogen injection websites.

I'm also curious how you came up with your numbers powderhound. How many tanks, did you test it on similar routes, etc? Not questioning your credibility, just wondering how you came up with your results - seems like you should be getting close to 18 or 19 mpg if you got a 30% improvement. Is that about right? Frankly, if you're getting 18mpg for a full tank on ANY route then there must be something to it. Of course, if you're going from 10 to 13mpg - it probably is just helping with a pre-existing problem.

x100

 

[Corbet]

the only way it can work is if it increases the efficiency of the combustion process. The hydrogen alone can in no way be producing the additional energy. But if the hydrogen somehow improves the gasoline combustion process - it would be possible.

I cut this from the manufacture web site: MagDrive Fuel From H2O - Tests Results

Facts you should know...
It’s not the HHO that makes the engine run. It’s what the HHO does to the inefficient gasoline concerning combustion efficiency. Gasoline is but only 13% efficient on average when it comes to actual power produced by the combustion process. Adding an additional fuel [Hydrogen] and oxidizer [Oxygen] "aka HHO" causes the inefficient gasoline to burn at a rate of better than 95% efficiency. That is what gives you the increased performance and horsepower and cleaner emissions from the gasoline which is now being supplemented by the HHO. It’s not the HHO; it’s what the HHO does during the combustion process to the gasoline. Simply explained, if you increase the efficiency of a fuel by supplementing it with an additive that enhances its production of energy thru combustion, it takes less fuel to do the same amount of work.



I'm still skeptical but very interested in seeing it in person. The test date they provide is not very convincing. But at $400 for the basic system its much less than others of seen online.

 

[powderhound]

yeap, I went from 10 mpg to 13+mpg in the first ten gallons, and it repeated in the next ten gallons. These were the early results using the same exact route and driving conditions. style, etc. to work and back. I'll have more mileage results soon. My smog pump seized a few days ago and I just found a belt at napa to bypass it so I can still run the water pump. Yes, my rig is not in pristine running condition, but its exactly the proper vehicle to test such a device on. If it can give me 30% better mpg and a smoother running engine and more power, then imagine what it can do in a properly tuned engine. It basically completes the burn of whatever fuel that you use so it takes less gasoline to get the same power results with the hho. kind of like 130 octane.
I have a switch inside the cockpit that I can turn the unit on or off independent of the ignition. I can see the results in the tail pipe exhaust. when running on gasoline only, the unburned gas smell is very noticeable. after a few minutes with the switch on the gas smell goes away and there is more moisture in the exhaust(from the hho completing the burn cycle and turning back into water vapor)
24 gallons to fill up @3.79 gallon 85 octane= $91 - 30% =$27 savings at the pump
$27 x 3 fill-ups per month = $81 month in savings x 6 mos= $486( sorry was off by $14)

 

[RockDoc]

I cut this from the manufacture web site: MagDrive Fuel From H2O - Tests Results

Facts you should know...
It’s not the HHO that makes the engine run. It’s what the HHO does to the inefficient gasoline concerning combustion efficiency. Gasoline is but only 13% efficient on average when it comes to actual power produced by the combustion process. Adding .......

That is starting to sound like something a bit more believable. I'm interested to hear your impressions after a while longer powderhound. If it seems to be doing what it claims, without any nasty side-issues, I might finally look for serious info on the principal, rather than continue to call bull each time it comes up.

That said, I still see 2 big issues with it:
The safety aspects of driving around with hydrogen and oxygen in perfect proportion just waiting for an excuse to ignite. (It may be small quantities, but I bet it would still pack a punch)
Destroying the system in sub-freezing temperatures.

 

[Corbet]

way and there is more moisture in the exhaust(from the hho completing the burn cycle and turning back into water vapor)
24 gallons to fill up @3.79 gallon 85 octane= $91 - 30% =$27 savings at the pump
$27 x 3 fill-ups per month = $81 month in savings x 6 mos= $486( sorry was off by $14)

What about the cost consumables you need to add to the system, distilled water and vinegar?

 

[RockDoc]

Maybe I should go back to this thread when I have time and see what came of it after it got moved.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/alternativ...c/190637-supplemental-hydrogen-generator.html

 

[powderhound]

1 gallon of city market distilled white vinegar =$2.50
so far after almost 300 miles, I haven't had to top it off, it'll probably last over 1000 miles per gallon of vineger at this rate. Your actually only supposed to put vinegar in the unit and then fill the resevoir with regular distilled water so as the h2o is used the acetate from the vinegar stays in the cell to charge the next amount of water, so you could even cut the vinegar usage to almost nothing. The cell stays charged for a few minutes even after the power is cut off. this indicates that the cell acts as a sort of capacitor and holds charges for a short time.

 

[Corbet]

OK, I look forward to seeing your rig.

 

[NocalFJ60]

The gain from something like this is too small to make it worth the money. You start getting 20 mpg then that is something worth it.

We should all pitch in $10 on here and have a few people in one area install it on one members cruiser and document everything with video and pictures. Then everyone can see how good/bad the results are and base their decision on that. I think it is just some people trying to sell you some crap that blows bubbles but that is my opinion.

 

[powderhound]

That is starting to sound like something a bit more believable. I'm interested to hear your impressions after a while longer powderhound. If it seems to be doing what it claims, without any nasty side-issues, I might finally look for serious info on the principal, rather than continue to call bull each time it comes up.

That said, I still see 2 big issues with it:
The safety aspects of driving around with hydrogen and oxygen in perfect proportion just waiting for an excuse to ignite. (It may be small quantities, but I bet it would still pack a punch)
Destroying the system in sub-freezing temperatures.

Compressed hydrogen is very dangerous and should not be used as it is basically a hydrogen bomb waiting to ignite. this system creates hydrogen as needed from water, water is about as safe as it gets for a fuel storage medium, I have my system tied into the switched leads with a breaker inbetween. When I turn off my key switch, the hho generator power is cut so as not to load up on hydrogen under the hood. Another note is hydrogen is extremely lighter than air and will dissapate very quickly and not accumulate like gasoline fumes which are for anyone who has used it to light a fire knows, very explosive.
as for sub freezing weather, I live at 8000 ft in colorado, winters here are only slightly interupted by spring and fall. Vinegar doesn't freeze at the same temp as pure water, but in case of severe cold below zero weather, a small amount of rubbing alcohol can be added to keep it from freezing. There is also an overflow system set up, so even if it does freeze, it has room for expansion. Any other ice is melted immediately when the unit has power applied.

 

[powderhound]

The gain from something like this is too small to make it worth the money. You start getting 20 mpg then that is something worth it.

We should all pitch in $10 on here and have a few people in one area install it on one members cruiser and document everything with video and pictures. Then everyone can see how good/bad the results are and base their decision on that. I think it is just some people trying to sell you some crap that blows bubbles but that is my opinion.

But these bubbles you can light!

 

[NocalFJ60]

Can you provide a scientific test showing the results? All the websites I have seen are full of a bunch of claims but no real data. Also all the sites with this information I have seen are trying to sell you a product not just educate you on it. I do agree that hydrogen burns.