WOW......can't wait to get your feedback once it's in, tuned a bit, and running. WELL DONE!
Builds Yeti my 80 series 2fe build
- Thread starter landcruiser80
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- 2fe 3fe engine rebuild performance
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- #82
Thanks, I appreciate your kind words!
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- #83
Wow, it's been over a month now. I know I said that I wanted to be done by the end of April but I guess I got busy with life and haven't done anything with it for awhile (I know weak excuse...)
Anyway I took advantage of the long weekend and dropped the engine in place. Mostly everything is hooked up now, I just need to get a couple belts, a few other odds and ends, and get the exhaust hooked up. Not exactly sure what I am going to do about that yet.
As for fitment issues it actually seems to sit in there decently, the 1.25" body lift made it a lot easier to bolt the tranny to the block and also seems to be the perfect height for the radiator. The fan is centered in the shroud perfectly, no moving of the radiator or trimming of the shroud required.
But I guess the real test will come when I try to put the hood back on...
A few things to note is that the high pressure fuel line coming from the fuel filter to the hard line on the head is a tad short now. So a new, longer fuel line wouldn't be a bad idea, either that or move the filter a bit. Also since I am utilizing the 2f PCV valve on the pushrod cover the fuel line and the PCV valve want to occupy the same space. Not a huge issue though, I just loosened the bolts and moved the fuel line back enough so that I could get the PCV valve in place.
Anyway I took advantage of the long weekend and dropped the engine in place. Mostly everything is hooked up now, I just need to get a couple belts, a few other odds and ends, and get the exhaust hooked up. Not exactly sure what I am going to do about that yet.
As for fitment issues it actually seems to sit in there decently, the 1.25" body lift made it a lot easier to bolt the tranny to the block and also seems to be the perfect height for the radiator. The fan is centered in the shroud perfectly, no moving of the radiator or trimming of the shroud required.
But I guess the real test will come when I try to put the hood back on...A few things to note is that the high pressure fuel line coming from the fuel filter to the hard line on the head is a tad short now. So a new, longer fuel line wouldn't be a bad idea, either that or move the filter a bit. Also since I am utilizing the 2f PCV valve on the pushrod cover the fuel line and the PCV valve want to occupy the same space. Not a huge issue though, I just loosened the bolts and moved the fuel line back enough so that I could get the PCV valve in place.
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- #85
OK, so tonight I got the rest of it pretty much buttoned up. The exhaust actually bolts up as it is, it will work until I can have a new exhaust done up. Put the new belts on, filled with fluids, and visually verified that everything is hooked up. Tomorrow I will put some gas in it, hook the battery up, and try to start it.
Rivman1243
SILVER Star
Can't wait to see how it turns out for you
- Thread starter
- #87
Well the good news is that it starts and runs. The bad news is that it doesn't run right
.
It will start but the idle is really rough, it smooths out as you bring the rpm's up but it still doesn't feel or sound quite right.
My first thought was that I was off a tooth on the dissy, but I checked and double checked and that is not the case. Now there is a substantial tear in the intake hose going to the throttle body, I know it needs to be replaced, but for now I taped it up pretty good. My second though was a vacuum leak which I am not really sure how to test, I suppose I should get a vacuum gauge and see what that tells me.
With my cam grind I am expecting more of a lope at idle and also a little less vacuum, but I think this is something more. On the plus side oil pressure is good and there are no horrible knocking sounds coming from the engine.
Here is a video. What do you guys think? I don't want to run it too much until I know it is good but I also want to break it in properly. Should I go ahead and run it for the 20 or so minutes to break in the cam? Also how does the valve train sound to you, the valves are set to cold spec right now and I plan to readjust them after the break-in procedure.
Looking for some suggestions here as I am not exactly sure what to do next.
. It will start but the idle is really rough, it smooths out as you bring the rpm's up but it still doesn't feel or sound quite right.
My first thought was that I was off a tooth on the dissy, but I checked and double checked and that is not the case. Now there is a substantial tear in the intake hose going to the throttle body, I know it needs to be replaced, but for now I taped it up pretty good. My second though was a vacuum leak which I am not really sure how to test, I suppose I should get a vacuum gauge and see what that tells me.
With my cam grind I am expecting more of a lope at idle and also a little less vacuum, but I think this is something more. On the plus side oil pressure is good and there are no horrible knocking sounds coming from the engine.
Here is a video. What do you guys think? I don't want to run it too much until I know it is good but I also want to break it in properly. Should I go ahead and run it for the 20 or so minutes to break in the cam? Also how does the valve train sound to you, the valves are set to cold spec right now and I plan to readjust them after the break-in procedure.
Looking for some suggestions here as I am not exactly sure what to do next.
Rivman1243
SILVER Star
Could it be the ecm still needs to learn how the engine runs with the new cam?
Did u set your timing right?
If you've got good oil pressure, I'd be inclined to do the cam break in and then see how it runs / trouble shoot / let the ECM learn the new engine after. Until you can let it idle some, the ECM won't be able to start smoothing the idle. The computer has just come back online after a long sleep and needs some closed loop time to learn the engine it's hooked to, with a warmer cam, higher displacement and rings that are just starting to seat.
I recall mine as being quite rough / reluctant on initial start up. After running it in, I had a very high idle that I eventually tracked down to a break in one of the idle speed control valve wires. The valve or wiring for it could be a culprit if your idle doesn't come up to speed... (mind you, I expect you are reusing your originals, mine were untested used parts)
I recall mine as being quite rough / reluctant on initial start up. After running it in, I had a very high idle that I eventually tracked down to a break in one of the idle speed control valve wires. The valve or wiring for it could be a culprit if your idle doesn't come up to speed... (mind you, I expect you are reusing your originals, mine were untested used parts)
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- Thread starter
- #91
Aside from the cracked intake hose a couple of other things were bugging me. One being the interference between the 2f pcv and the high pressure fuel line. Even though I moved the line back it was still lightly pushing against the pcv hose so I wasn't convinced that it was getting a 100% seal. So I swapped back over to the 3fe valve cover (note: it is a lot harder to remove now, not impossible but not super simple either) so I could cap the port on the 2f sidecover and use the 3fe pcv routing.
I also tried to locate another intake hose but it will take a few days to get here so for now I taped the current one up even better. I also remembered that I hadn't replaced the dissy cap o-ring so I removed the old one (which had chunks broken out of it) and replaced it with the new Toyota one.
Thought that maybe those things might help so I started it again but no dice, runs the same as it did before. Ugh. Anyways I did do the cam break-in thinking that maybe the computer would smooth it out after running for awhile but it didn't seem to help. Still has a hard time idling, jumps from 500-1000 rpm and is rough. And when you rev it up it isn't as smooth as it should be, shakes a bit too like it is missing in a cylinder. Tried to put a timing light on it but with the rough idle it is all over the place.
Sooo, my thoughts right now are:
-Vacuum leak
-Cylinder misfire (maybe due to the timing being off or an injector not firing)
-Being one tooth off on the dissy,
Here is a picture of the rotor position when the engine is at 7*BTDC and the dissy is in the middle of the adjustment range
I know that it doesn't point exactly where the picture in the fsm shows, but one tooth in either direction and it is off even more. Also I understand that the 2f cam is retarded 5* in relation to the 3fe cam so that might explain it. When the dissy is advanced all the way it does seem to run a bit better, it also brings the idle speed up. But retarding it at all makes it run even worse.
I am thinking about moving the dissy one tooth advanced and seeing how it runs, bad idea? I am also going to adjust the valves again and see how it runs. Then I will go through and make sure I am getting spark on each plug. I want to test the injectors too but not sure how one would go about that?
Hmm, thoughts?
I also tried to locate another intake hose but it will take a few days to get here so for now I taped the current one up even better. I also remembered that I hadn't replaced the dissy cap o-ring so I removed the old one (which had chunks broken out of it) and replaced it with the new Toyota one.
Thought that maybe those things might help so I started it again but no dice, runs the same as it did before. Ugh. Anyways I did do the cam break-in thinking that maybe the computer would smooth it out after running for awhile but it didn't seem to help. Still has a hard time idling, jumps from 500-1000 rpm and is rough. And when you rev it up it isn't as smooth as it should be, shakes a bit too like it is missing in a cylinder. Tried to put a timing light on it but with the rough idle it is all over the place.
Sooo, my thoughts right now are:
-Vacuum leak
-Cylinder misfire (maybe due to the timing being off or an injector not firing)
-Being one tooth off on the dissy,
Here is a picture of the rotor position when the engine is at 7*BTDC and the dissy is in the middle of the adjustment range
I know that it doesn't point exactly where the picture in the fsm shows, but one tooth in either direction and it is off even more. Also I understand that the 2f cam is retarded 5* in relation to the 3fe cam so that might explain it. When the dissy is advanced all the way it does seem to run a bit better, it also brings the idle speed up. But retarding it at all makes it run even worse.
I am thinking about moving the dissy one tooth advanced and seeing how it runs, bad idea? I am also going to adjust the valves again and see how it runs. Then I will go through and make sure I am getting spark on each plug. I want to test the injectors too but not sure how one would go about that?
Hmm, thoughts?
I wish I knew the answer(s), I don't. Broken internal wiring of the AFM is known to flutter RPMs at/near idle - just a thought. KEEP AT IT, you're close!
To make sure I'm getting you clearly, it isn't just the idle, it seems rough at higher RPM as well? If it was just idle I would wonder about the TPS or ISC valve..... is it giving you a code? Checking valves again certainly won't hurt... The wiring and sensors and such were all reused from the original engine? Maybe visually inspect the wiring as much as you can in place and remove & reinstall all the accessible harness plugs.
If it feels like it's consistently missing on one cylinder, try pulling plug wires one at a time to see if / which one cylinder is acting up. I wonder if it has run enough for the plugs to show any discrepancies yet... If it is one cylinder, you've got spark, air (compression) and fuel (injector and wiring) as possible culprits. Perhaps brittle wiring to one of the injectors was damaged?
If you suspect a vacuum leak, try using a spray bottle with water and work around all the possible leak spots (intake hose, vacuum lines, VSVs, intake manifold mating surfaces.....) while it's running to see if there is a spot that affects the smoothness when wet down. Some guys use carb cleaner or an unlit propane torch to do the same thing, but I'm not big on playing with fire risks.
If it feels like it's consistently missing on one cylinder, try pulling plug wires one at a time to see if / which one cylinder is acting up. I wonder if it has run enough for the plugs to show any discrepancies yet... If it is one cylinder, you've got spark, air (compression) and fuel (injector and wiring) as possible culprits. Perhaps brittle wiring to one of the injectors was damaged?
If you suspect a vacuum leak, try using a spray bottle with water and work around all the possible leak spots (intake hose, vacuum lines, VSVs, intake manifold mating surfaces.....) while it's running to see if there is a spot that affects the smoothness when wet down. Some guys use carb cleaner or an unlit propane torch to do the same thing, but I'm not big on playing with fire risks.
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- #94
Hey guys. I knew this busy season was coming up and I wouldn't have a lot of free time, hence my goal to be done by April, sigh. But I thought I would take the time to update you all on what has (or hasn't) been going on with this project.
So I did the power balance test and all of the cylinders affected the idle when the wires were pulled, so it doesn't seem to be a constant miss on one cylinder. I also adjusted the valves, put on a new intake hose to the TB, and I advanced the dissy one tooth but it only wanted to run fully retarded in that position so I put it back. Still no luck so I figured I should approach this logically, you have air, fuel, spark, and compression, so I cracked out the fsm and started going through the systems starting with the ignition system.
The new plugs are all gaped properly, new rotor, the wires visually look good and the resistance tests out fine when measured with an ohm meter. The dissy specs out fine according to the fsm tests as well as the ignition coil and igniter. I still haven't been able to verify the ignition timing because of the erratic idle though.
I did a compression test and it is almost exactly 150psi even across all cylinders.
I then moved on the the AFM, TPS, and ISC Valve. The AFM and ISC Valve tested fine but the TPS needed to be adjusted, once I did that it measured good. Still running like crap though.
I am moving on the the vacuum situation next, verify correct line routing, test for leaks, etc. I will also address the charcoal canister because I noticed some pressure in the tank when I removed the gas cap to pour fuel in it.
After that I will move on to the fuel system, I am saving that for last because I don't want to have to remove the intake plenum if I don't have to. I should note that you can hear each injector firing while it is running.
I will also give you a little more info about exactly how it is running, because it has changed a bit since I initially started it up.
When you turn it over it catches fairly quickly and goes up to about 2,000 rpm. It slowly tries to come down until it hits 650, running worse as it comes down. It tries to idle but has a really hard time running, the CEL briefly flashes and some other lights come on, and then it will rev up to 2,000 again and repeat the cycle. If you give it gas it will smooth out a bit but it still doesn't sound or feel quite right and you can feel the occasional shudder in the steering wheel and seat when you try to hold it above 2,000 rpm. I would say it runs the worst 1,500 and down.
I checked to see if it would give me any codes but, nope, nothing. Another thing that kind of concerns me is a squealing sound that has materialized at lower rpm, about 1,200 down. It sounds similar to a belt squeal, but it is not constant, it kind of comes on and off. Maybe the AC belt or AC clutch? It sounds the loudest on the passenger side of the vehicle, down by the dissy. I am hoping that it isn't an internal engine noise. Just out of curiosity, what does a spun bearing sound like? The oil pressure is just under 60psi according to my mechanical gauge.
That's about as far as I have gotten. This thing has me baffled. This is really frustrating, I want to drive it
So I did the power balance test and all of the cylinders affected the idle when the wires were pulled, so it doesn't seem to be a constant miss on one cylinder. I also adjusted the valves, put on a new intake hose to the TB, and I advanced the dissy one tooth but it only wanted to run fully retarded in that position so I put it back. Still no luck so I figured I should approach this logically, you have air, fuel, spark, and compression, so I cracked out the fsm and started going through the systems starting with the ignition system.
The new plugs are all gaped properly, new rotor, the wires visually look good and the resistance tests out fine when measured with an ohm meter. The dissy specs out fine according to the fsm tests as well as the ignition coil and igniter. I still haven't been able to verify the ignition timing because of the erratic idle though.
I did a compression test and it is almost exactly 150psi even across all cylinders.
I then moved on the the AFM, TPS, and ISC Valve. The AFM and ISC Valve tested fine but the TPS needed to be adjusted, once I did that it measured good. Still running like crap though.
I am moving on the the vacuum situation next, verify correct line routing, test for leaks, etc. I will also address the charcoal canister because I noticed some pressure in the tank when I removed the gas cap to pour fuel in it.
After that I will move on to the fuel system, I am saving that for last because I don't want to have to remove the intake plenum if I don't have to. I should note that you can hear each injector firing while it is running.
I will also give you a little more info about exactly how it is running, because it has changed a bit since I initially started it up.
When you turn it over it catches fairly quickly and goes up to about 2,000 rpm. It slowly tries to come down until it hits 650, running worse as it comes down. It tries to idle but has a really hard time running, the CEL briefly flashes and some other lights come on, and then it will rev up to 2,000 again and repeat the cycle. If you give it gas it will smooth out a bit but it still doesn't sound or feel quite right and you can feel the occasional shudder in the steering wheel and seat when you try to hold it above 2,000 rpm. I would say it runs the worst 1,500 and down.
I checked to see if it would give me any codes but, nope, nothing. Another thing that kind of concerns me is a squealing sound that has materialized at lower rpm, about 1,200 down. It sounds similar to a belt squeal, but it is not constant, it kind of comes on and off. Maybe the AC belt or AC clutch? It sounds the loudest on the passenger side of the vehicle, down by the dissy. I am hoping that it isn't an internal engine noise. Just out of curiosity, what does a spun bearing sound like? The oil pressure is just under 60psi according to my mechanical gauge.
That's about as far as I have gotten. This thing has me baffled. This is really frustrating, I want to drive it
Just checking in, been a little while since your last update, throwing out some positive vibes and support.
- Thread starter
- #96
It is running right! And boy do I feel stupid...
Instead of a long winded explanation I think a picture will explain the best,
I'm not exactly sure how I missed this as I was anal with cleaning everything else. I think it is because I was planning on removing the intake manifold for some reason or another, and the inside wasn't that dirty, so I think I decided to put it on the way it was without giving it a rigorous cleaning and that I would clean it better next time I had it off. A little dirt on the outside never hurt anything right?
Well, I apparently overlooked cleaning the manifold mating surface because, as you can see, there were pieces of the old gasket stuck to it, causing a huge vacuum leak. I did clean the throttle body though, but man this is embarrassing.
I haven't driven it much, I will insure it tomorrow and then I can drive it around to break it in and get a feel for it. I set the timing right on 7* for now. I can probably advance it more, but I will play with that later. The hood closes with the 1.25" body lift, I should measure to see exactly how much clearance I actually have under there, but it seems to work well. Next on the list is a front axle rebuild and brake overhaul.
Instead of a long winded explanation I think a picture will explain the best,
I'm not exactly sure how I missed this as I was anal with cleaning everything else. I think it is because I was planning on removing the intake manifold for some reason or another, and the inside wasn't that dirty, so I think I decided to put it on the way it was without giving it a rigorous cleaning and that I would clean it better next time I had it off. A little dirt on the outside never hurt anything right?
Well, I apparently overlooked cleaning the manifold mating surface because, as you can see, there were pieces of the old gasket stuck to it, causing a huge vacuum leak. I did clean the throttle body though, but man this is embarrassing.
I haven't driven it much, I will insure it tomorrow and then I can drive it around to break it in and get a feel for it. I set the timing right on 7* for now. I can probably advance it more, but I will play with that later. The hood closes with the 1.25" body lift, I should measure to see exactly how much clearance I actually have under there, but it seems to work well. Next on the list is a front axle rebuild and brake overhaul.
- Thread starter
- #97
Here is a video of it idling,
What do you guys think? The exhaust doesn't quite sound like I was expecting, but then again the tired, old, stock exhaust setup is kinda pathetic.
What do you guys think? The exhaust doesn't quite sound like I was expecting, but then again the tired, old, stock exhaust setup is kinda pathetic.
- Thread starter
- #98
Here are a few pictures of the stance with the stock tire size and 1.25" body lift. As you can see there is a bit of body damage, but that will have to wait a while to get fixed.
serenity
SILVER Star
At least you got it running, no need to feel stupid at all mate! Its easy to miss little things on a big job like that, done similar things myself. I've been lurking following his thread and I'm happy to see you get it running!
