What makes LC80 most capable 4WD/SUV?

[podiev]

It's been about six months now that I been bitten by the LC80 bug. And addicted as well to mud - been reading almost on a daily basis.

Got a question/survey though so I can complete the bragging rights of an LC80 to my friends who own lowly Honda CRVs/non4WD vehicles.

It's been posted/discussed in this forum that:
a. Stock LC80 with center diff is the most capable 4WD/SUV of its time
b. A stock LC80 with triple locks make it a formidable 4WD/SUV.

- what exactly makes an LC80 such a capable/formidable 4WD?
Is it the ability to lock differentials (honda CRVs definitely don't have this?
Is it the type of materials used throught out - from frame to body to engine to nuts/bolts?
Is it the behemoth size of the LC80?
Is it the overall engineering?
Is it a design factor: ground-up 4WD heritage?
Is it the quality of the manufacturing?
Is it Suspension?
Is it the combination of a capable 4WD and "soccer mom" SUV/daily driver?
All of the above?

- what makes an LC80 different from other Toyota 4WD/SUVs like the 4runners, tundra, tacomas, sequioas and the other toyota pickups? Arent these other toyota vehicles capable/formidable 4WDs as well? If these other vehicles come from Toyota, then they would have benefitted also from Toyota's expertise, knowledge, R&D, etc., right?

- what makes an LC80 different from other 4WDs from Ford, GMs, Jeeps, Rovers, Nissan Patrols, Pajeros, etc?. Or am I comparing apples and oranges here?

Is triple-locking or even just center locking a proprietary Toyota technology? And exlusively offered on LCs (I had a 2001 4Runner before but I don't remember seeing a CDL or a F/R locking switch)?

Of course, this is an LC exclusive site - hence your responses might be taken as biased by non cruiser heads. But t's very natural to love your own, aint it?. As such, send in your thoughts: what makes an LC80 a real engineering feat?

 

[Bear80]

Got a question/survey though so I can complete the bragging rights of an LC80 to my friends who own lowly Honda CRVs/non4WD vehicles.

It's been posted/discussed in this forum that:
a. Stock LC80 with center diff is the most capable 4WD/SUV of its time
b. A stock LC80 with triple locks make it a formidable 4WD/SUV.

- what exactly makes an LC80 such a capable/formidable 4WD?
Is it the ability to lock differentials (honda CRVs definitely don't have this?
Is it the type of materials used throught out - from frame to body to engine to nuts/bolts?
Is it the behemoth size of the LC80?
Is it the overall engineering?
Is it a design factor: ground-up 4WD heritage?
Is it the quality of the manufacturing?
Is it Suspension?
Is it the combination of a capable 4WD and "soccer mom" SUV/daily driver?
All of the above?

Within each of your questions you answered them....

 

[NaterGator]

I'm going to go with design factor as it basically encompasses all else.

The 80 series Toyotas were designed to "get you there, no matter whats in front of you." A Honda CRV (your example, not mine) is designed to look big, carry the kids, be safe, and get good gas mileage.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I'd actually say it's not the most capable, Jeep Rubicon is probably on par in some respects, and superior when the trees get tight. Some will argue the 40 series is superior for that reason. H1 is up there two. What makes it a superior 4wd though, is a long list

Solid front and rear axles
Front and rear lockers
Reasonable low range
Coil spring suspension
Torquey engine
Build quality / dependability
Overkill of most components
It's truly built for off-road - like the little catch can in the air filter for water and mud.

It's history has a lot to do with it compared to Jeep's history. Toyota threw a dump truck tranny in the first Land Cruisers. Everything was big because of what it was coming from. Jeeps on the other had started out small and light, with little 4 bangers that didn't have enough power to break it's tiny axles. FJ45 trucks were rated at 1 ton! Ever see a 1 ton CJ? Downey's catalog always states that running a V-8 in a 40 is no problem cause Jeep's had V-8's for ever and crusiers have 50% stronger drivetrain. Look at the axle housing on a CJ, then a 40, and it becomes real obvious. Heck, look at the weights. 1,000lbs more for a 40 than a CJ-7, probably a couple hundred in the metal hard top, but the rest is in bigger axles, bigger tranny, boxes frame ect. That's where the 80 comes from. A history of overbuilt, and understressed. They've always been a little low on power, but it takes a lot to overstress a stock axle with a stock motor.

Is that the kind of answer you're looking for?

 

[TiredIronGRB]

H1 is up there two.

I see now how you got your nickname and tagline

Having had several H1s I would rather roll in a Discovery.

 

[FirstToy]

I'd actually say it's not the most capable, Jeep Rubicon is probably on par in some respects, and superior when the trees get tight. Some will argue the 40 series is superior for that reason. H1 is up there two. What makes it a superior 4wd though, is a long list

Yeah but the LC can carry up to 7-8 people, you can sleep in it, you can carry alot of stuff, you can travel long distances in comfort, it is quiet and comfortable. All things you can't say about a Jeep Rubicon. The LC can do, or be made to do anything. By the definition of "capable"- I think the LC is one of the most capable vehicles out there
H1 could not hang w/ a day run thru local trails, I don't think too highly of them except as a military-use vehicle.

 

[EricG]

Heh ... this thread is gonna be like a circle jerk at a boarding school

 

[Walking Eagle]

Yeah but the LC can carry up to 7-8 people, you can sleep in it, you can carry alot of stuff, you can travel long distances in comfort, it is quiet and comfortable. All things you can't say about a Jeep Rubicon. The LC can do, or be made to do anything. By the definition of "capable"- I think the LC is one of the most capable vehicles out there
H1 could not hang w/ a day run thru local trails, I don't think too highly of them except as a military-use vehicle.

For my money, I'll take the LC, obviously, it's just the "most" capable qualification that is subjective. Does most capable include comfort for 12 hrs on the interstate? Does easy doors off windshield down for seeing the trail make a topless rig more capable? How about a rust free body like the Aluminum series 1 Rovers? Hose out interior, does that make a difference? How about a cruising range of more than 250 miles?

H1 is certainly a large beast. But, as far as capable, the fording depth, side hill stabiity, approach and departure angles, abiliy to climb a steep grade, superior ground clearance, ect, it is certainly capable. Most capable? depends - gonna go through a bunch of water, sand, rocks or mud? Rubicon is more capable on rocks than normal TJ, but worse in sand cause of the low range gearing. So, which of those two are more capable.

I'd say the 80 has a unique blend of off-road capabilities, luxury and dependability, that is matched by few if any other vehicle.

 

[sseaman]

comparison with a honda crv? what i understand the Disco comparison a little but not this

 

[Walking Eagle]

I see now how you got your nickname and tagline

Having had several H1s I would rather roll in a Discovery.

tag line is actually for the benifit of a forum member who shall remain nameless

 

[Lka1988]

What makes it a superior 4wd though, is a long list

Solid front and rear axles
Front and rear lockers
Reasonable low range
Coil spring suspension
Torquey engine
Build quality / dependability
Overkill of most components
It's truly built for off-road - like the little catch can in the air filter for water and mud.

It's history has a lot to do with it compared to Jeep's history. Toyota threw a dump truck tranny in the first Land Cruisers. Everything was big because of what it was coming from. Jeeps on the other had started out small and light, with little 4 bangers that didn't have enough power to break it's tiny axles. FJ45 trucks were rated at 1 ton! Ever see a 1 ton CJ? Downey's catalog always states that running a V-8 in a 40 is no problem cause Jeep's had V-8's for ever and crusiers have 50% stronger drivetrain. Look at the axle housing on a CJ, then a 40, and it becomes real obvious. Heck, look at the weights. 1,000lbs more for a 40 than a CJ-7, probably a couple hundred in the metal hard top, but the rest is in bigger axles, bigger tranny, boxes frame ect. That's where the 80 comes from. A history of overbuilt, and understressed. They've always been a little low on power, but it takes a lot to overstress a stock axle with a stock motor.

As soon as I started to read that, I imagined some important-looking guy saying that while standing at a podium, with the audience cheering...


*Applause*

 

[Erratic]

I see now how you got your nickname and tagline

Having had several H1s I would rather roll in a Discovery.

Why all the hate for the H1? No vehicle is perfect, but you really don't like em, huh? There is a lot of excelleent engineering that went into the H1. There is a large list of pros and cons for an H1 or a Landcruiser, but a disco? Come on. Things I like about a LC. Overbuilt, reliable, suspension geometry, lockers. Things I don't like. Range. Not necessarily mileage, but range. 200ish with the LC. over 400 with the H1 I had. Pretty much the same MPG. Towing capacity is minimal compared to a V8 Turbo Diesel. Any gas motor dies once water hits the ignition system. Diesels are water proof. I would consider myself to be objective to almost all 4wd vehicles. They all have strengths and weaknesses. I personally liked a truck that could ford 3 feet of water all day, take a 38" tire, have a huge payload and a diesel motor stock! But the articulation sucked a lot and it broke a lot. My LC is so far very reliable. I've put less into it in the year I've had it than I did in the first month of owning the H1. I really want to know why you hate the H1. This isn't the first thread I've seen you dis one. Just curious. I know it's not the typical jeep owner hatred because they just cant afford one, because youve had them. So what's up?

Funny Vid for the Rover lovers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqBph0o8Asc

 

[phxtlc]

Most? Hmmm. It all depends on a couple of things:


What do you want to do with it?

Rocks? then I'd stick with a smaller wheelbase vehicle like a Jeep or a 40. 80's would be my next choice.

Mud? Difficult choice here. Stock out of the box the option of 3 lockers helps. These beasts have a tendancy to sink though because of the weight though. Basic idea with mud is to float on top and have power to push through. but on the other hand

High speed desert? I think P/U's can do really well here. Once again weight / power.

Expedition? Have to narrow it down to two companies here. Toyota and Land Rover. What's the difference? Which one will get you back.


OK now to the meat...What can do it all the best? the LC. I can recall multiple storys and descriptions on how LR's spanned the globe, which is totally true. However as the models evolved they got more dependant on items that were too difficult, unreliable, or expensive for the average mechanic in the middle of nowhere to fix. Couple this with issue after issue and the TLC has basically replaced them (or Toyo P/U's). Would you really want to try and find someone to fix your 2007 Range Rover in the middle of nowhere? Good Luck.

All that being said I'd rank the top 2 4x4's in the world TLC and LR Defender (a ton easier to work on, more room than a jeep, so on and so on. If you doubt me try one you'd love it.)

Jeeps fall apart. But the sight lines for wheel placement is outstanding,
LR's = $$$$
American? Too Big, IFS, bad quality.
Nissan's? can't give credit here because I'll get killed by the dude's from OZ
H1 was designed for straight line work @ 50 mph as part of a convoy. Try bringin one in the woods or a tight switchback.
H2? Crap. Wait ugly crap.
Everything else is a car.

Truck = Boxed Frame

But remember the vehicle is only as good as the driver. I could drive circles around more "built" vehicles with my 90 Wranlger out of the box, at least until 80k miles when it fell apart.

 

[TiredIronGRB]

Why all the hate for the H1? No vehicle is perfect, but you really don't like em, huh? There is a lot of excelleent engineering that went into the H1. There is a large list of pros and cons for an H1 or a Landcruiser, but a disco? Come on. Things I like about a LC. Overbuilt, reliable, suspension geometry, lockers. Things I don't like. Range. Not necessarily mileage, but range. 200ish with the LC. over 400 with the H1 I had. Pretty much the same MPG. Towing capacity is minimal compared to a V8 Turbo Diesel. Any gas motor dies once water hits the ignition system. Diesels are water proof. I would consider myself to be objective to almost all 4wd vehicles. They all have strengths and weaknesses. I personally liked a truck that could ford 3 feet of water all day, take a 38" tire, have a huge payload and a diesel motor stock! But the articulation sucked a lot and it broke a lot. My LC is so far very reliable. I've put less into it in the year I've had it than I did in the first month of owning the H1. I really want to know why you hate the H1. This isn't the first thread I've seen you dis one. Just curious. I know it's not the typical jeep owner hatred because they just cant afford one, because youve had them. So what's up?

Funny Vid for the Disco lovers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqBph0o8Asc

Like I said I've had several, I restore military vehicles as a hobby and the H1s are too big, underpowered, have weak drivetrain components. I got this one stuck in wet grass once. I guess they are ok if you just want to ride around and look cool but for offroad they just don't get it.

 

[theyis]

Well I own an H1 and a 40. I love them both. I'm selling the Hummer just because of the high cost of ownership. Here's the point. The Hummer is arguably the most capable stock vehicle out there. I ride with all kinds of vehicles and almost all of them are heavily modified and I haven't run into much that I couldn't do that they could. The exception to that is running into those pesky trees here in CO. I could run most of them over but that wouldn't be too environmentally friendly now would it? That being said, if we are talking about modified vehicles my 40 is going to end up far more capable than pretty much any 80 could be. Now if only I could figure out how to get 8 people in there.

 

[Erratic]

Like I said I've had several, I restore military vehicles as a hobby and the H1s are too big, underpowered, have weak drivetrain components. I got this one stuck in wet grass once. I guess they are ok if you just want to ride around and look cool but for offroad they just don't get it.

I wouldn't want to take that one off road. It's too pretty. Nice Resto! I agree with almost all you said. But put you in a TD open top (lighter than an armored humvee) with some 38" Iroks at 10 PSI and maybe you would take it over a disco someday.

IMO there is no ultimate 4x4. They all have different purposes. But you cant beat the road presence of the H1. I nicknamed mine the mergemaster.

 

[Erratic]

Oh, and I've seen you drive. I don't believe you got an H1 stuck in "wet grass". Tell us the rest of the story.

 

[cary]

I think you have to look at intended use of the 80 to appreciate what makes it a great vehicle:

1) It is designed to be used around the world as a vehicle transport up to 8 passengers and their luggage as reliably as possible.

2) To meet it's design goals, it is very over-engineered. This results in a vehicle that can be heavily modified and easily used for other uses (i.e. rockcrawling).

3) It meets the goals of it's design better than any other vehicle in it's class. Look at where and who uses 80's, everyone from the UN to Terrorists that want the most reliable, durable vehicle they can count on. They have been seen around the world and are the only wheeled vehicle to have crossed the Antartic (modified).

Comparing an 80 to a CRV isn't fair. They are designed for two different uses. A CRV is designed to transport 5 passengers and their luggage in reasonable comfort, while getting much better mileage, handling better on road, but still offering the advantages of AWD for dirt roads and snow.

 

[tech_dog]

Well said, Cary.

I always like to pick "best of breed." As a toaster, the LC sucks. For a go anywhere in relative comfort, haul cargo, tow something, never break down, get out of the mud, go through the snow, get through the sand, and everything else you migh find, the LC 80 is best of breed without a doubt... except for the stereo.

T.

 

[CodyRx7]

The Toyota reliability.

Thats what the others dont have.