Were Child hooks added in 00 or 01.
- Thread starter Blake1
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They are not in my '00, nor referenced in the owner's manual. IMHO the seatbelts are easier to use anyway. the latest consumer reports bashed child seats that allow too much play, causing whiplash and other injury. In my other vehicles with the LATCH hooks I was never able to get the seat as tight as with the seatbelt.
Wow, that is amazing. I find that child seats with LATCH are a piece of cake to get super tight with no play. On the flip side, despite the best efforts of multiple people, we've never been able to get *anywhere close* to being what I consider being tight enough using just seatbelts. In fact that's one of my main reasons I'm putting my '99 up for sale. We just can't take it anymore! Are we talking about the same latch/hook system?? Or were you using something like a 12,000 lb winch to tighten the belt? 
Having worked at car safety checkpoints as a volunteer, you need to use both the rear latch hooks and the seat belt - perhaps there is some language I am missing here. I use the 3rd row seat anchors for my daughters car seat with the rear belt latch - works great - I don't even have one inch of play (she is still in a 5 pt.)
Pull out the seat belt all the way until you activate the locking ratchet. then get in the seat and put your knee into it with all your weight- then buckle and release the strap.
Pull out the seat belt all the way until you activate the locking ratchet. then get in the seat and put your knee into it with all your weight- then buckle and release the strap.
Yeah, trust me, I've spent countless minutes with my knees and every other part of my body pushing down on the seat (and of course I lock the belt by pulling it all the way out) and still have never come close the the tightness and ease of the LATCH system. If you guys do, that's great, but I just don't get it. If I do the knee method with LATCH, I can very easily get it 'too' tight where it looks like it's destroying the seat.
I guess part of my bias is that I occassionally have to remove the seats for adult passengers and/or larger items. That being said, I wish there were at least anchor points on the backs of the seats for the child seats. This definitely keeps the seat more stable and vertical, which then keeps the peace with the two older kids who inevitably push the seat towards one and other.
Fortunately, we just moved up to a booster seat that uses the stock seatbelt only.
Fortunately, we just moved up to a booster seat that uses the stock seatbelt only.
Here is an excerpt from CR's latest tests
"Our findings offer added evidence of problems with LATCH, the federally mandated attachment system for child car seats. Most car seats performed worse with LATCH than with vehicle safety belts. And LATCH attachments aren’t always easy to use."
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ats/car-seats-2-07/overview/0207_seats_ov.htm
"Our findings offer added evidence of problems with LATCH, the federally mandated attachment system for child car seats. Most car seats performed worse with LATCH than with vehicle safety belts. And LATCH attachments aren’t always easy to use."
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ats/car-seats-2-07/overview/0207_seats_ov.htm
"Our findings offer added evidence of problems with LATCH, the federally mandated attachment system for child car seats. Most car seats performed worse with LATCH than with vehicle safety belts. And LATCH attachments aren’t always easy to use."
Ok, so I read their paragraph on LATCH. They say LATCH fails more often. This sounds pretty simple, but when they go on to give their reasons.... they sound weak to me.
They say one reason may be that LATCH often isn't offered in the safest part of the seat (the center). Is this the 'failure'? How about just saying a center seat with a seatbelt is better than a window seat with LATCH? Besides, it's not an issue with those of us having 2 kids and large child seats that can't go next to each other anyway.
They mention that it would be better with another anchor point on the floor... well duh. Nothing about LATCH prevents you from anchoring it to any other anchor point that you could use with a regular seatbelt method. I've never sean a child seat (not they don't exist, just saying i haven't seen one) that was *exclusively* latch. They always provide ways to use the normal anchor points as well. So how is that a failure of the LATCH system?? That would just be a failure of the installer to not go that extra mile (same as if you were using a seatbelt instead)! What am I missing here?
And finally they say it's not "always" easy to use. Is this the failure? True, my wife does seem to have trouble with LATCH hooks but it's because I alway see people trying to hook or unhook without first pressing that button to loosen the strap. Just do that, and give youself plenty of slack, then it's a piece of cake.
So, if these are the source of these greater failures they speak of, then I would say....
a) If your center seat doesn't have LATCH, then use the center seat with a seatbelt rather than side seat with latch (makes sense).
b) Still use a 3rd anchor point. Using LATCH alone would not prevent the front of the seat flying upwards... common sense if you look at where it's anchored.
c) Learn how to make it easier on yourself as I stated (I know some cars make that difficult by their hook placement, but most I've used were ok).
If they were to instead say that LATCH hooks broke off, or caused some kind of worse whiplash because of the placement vs. seatbelt, then I'd be more inclined to take their assertion seriously. They mention specific childseats not to use with LATCH. That's definitely good to know... but again, I don't see how that's a failure of the LATCH system... that's a failure of those specific model's implementations (it would be nice if they told us what happened on those different from seatbelts, maybe that's in the full subscription version of the article?). Using that same logic, we could look at other childseats that get poor ratings and say that childseats have problems and therefore "childseats have problems". No, just get one that doesn't suck.
I think they've given enough evidence to show that there's no 100% right or wrong answer regardless of the situation (i.e. leaves plenty open for debate). But as always, if we just use our heads and make a good match between our child seat selection, placement in the vehicle and anchors points, then that's the best we hope for.... that, and avoiding crashes
Anyway, I'm glad Blake asked the question as I was wondering the exact same thing. Sorry if we've hijacked your thread... but at least you got your question answered
Ok, so I read their paragraph on LATCH. They say LATCH fails more often. This sounds pretty simple, but when they go on to give their reasons.... they sound weak to me.
They say one reason may be that LATCH often isn't offered in the safest part of the seat (the center). Is this the 'failure'? How about just saying a center seat with a seatbelt is better than a window seat with LATCH? Besides, it's not an issue with those of us having 2 kids and large child seats that can't go next to each other anyway.
They mention that it would be better with another anchor point on the floor... well duh. Nothing about LATCH prevents you from anchoring it to any other anchor point that you could use with a regular seatbelt method. I've never sean a child seat (not they don't exist, just saying i haven't seen one) that was *exclusively* latch. They always provide ways to use the normal anchor points as well. So how is that a failure of the LATCH system?? That would just be a failure of the installer to not go that extra mile (same as if you were using a seatbelt instead)! What am I missing here?
And finally they say it's not "always" easy to use. Is this the failure? True, my wife does seem to have trouble with LATCH hooks but it's because I alway see people trying to hook or unhook without first pressing that button to loosen the strap. Just do that, and give youself plenty of slack, then it's a piece of cake.
So, if these are the source of these greater failures they speak of, then I would say....
a) If your center seat doesn't have LATCH, then use the center seat with a seatbelt rather than side seat with latch (makes sense).
b) Still use a 3rd anchor point. Using LATCH alone would not prevent the front of the seat flying upwards... common sense if you look at where it's anchored.
c) Learn how to make it easier on yourself as I stated (I know some cars make that difficult by their hook placement, but most I've used were ok).
If they were to instead say that LATCH hooks broke off, or caused some kind of worse whiplash because of the placement vs. seatbelt, then I'd be more inclined to take their assertion seriously. They mention specific childseats not to use with LATCH. That's definitely good to know... but again, I don't see how that's a failure of the LATCH system... that's a failure of those specific model's implementations (it would be nice if they told us what happened on those different from seatbelts, maybe that's in the full subscription version of the article?). Using that same logic, we could look at other childseats that get poor ratings and say that childseats have problems and therefore "childseats have problems". No, just get one that doesn't suck.
I think they've given enough evidence to show that there's no 100% right or wrong answer regardless of the situation (i.e. leaves plenty open for debate). But as always, if we just use our heads and make a good match between our child seat selection, placement in the vehicle and anchors points, then that's the best we hope for.... that, and avoiding crashes
Anyway, I'm glad Blake asked the question as I was wondering the exact same thing. Sorry if we've hijacked your thread... but at least you got your question answered
hijack continues. sorry.
we have the graco that isn't rated as acceptable. just 3 months ago it was the best damned thing under the sun.... maybe several months from now they'll turn this current data on it's head.
as for latch v. belts, i agree with lcfool. very shoddy explanation of latches shortcomings. my little man is in the center seat second row of our new LX with enough steel and airbags around him to make me feel pretty damned secure. nothing pisses me off more than these studies and what not that keep jerking parents around and making us feel like we're not doing enough.
back in the day kids were sitting in the back seat of the impala with no airbags or seat belts with dad chain smoking and finishing his sixer. i survived this and so did many of you.... i refuse to rush out and buy a new seat based on this. we bought our current seat based on CR and i really feel like they've let me down. this may be the end of my putting any stock in what those folks have to say.
jp
we have the graco that isn't rated as acceptable. just 3 months ago it was the best damned thing under the sun.... maybe several months from now they'll turn this current data on it's head.
as for latch v. belts, i agree with lcfool. very shoddy explanation of latches shortcomings. my little man is in the center seat second row of our new LX with enough steel and airbags around him to make me feel pretty damned secure. nothing pisses me off more than these studies and what not that keep jerking parents around and making us feel like we're not doing enough.
back in the day kids were sitting in the back seat of the impala with no airbags or seat belts with dad chain smoking and finishing his sixer. i survived this and so did many of you.... i refuse to rush out and buy a new seat based on this. we bought our current seat based on CR and i really feel like they've let me down. this may be the end of my putting any stock in what those folks have to say.
jp
ha ha... well at least you had something covering your head in that impala. I spent a good part of my youth in the back of a pickup (along with guns and dead animals). On a good day, I'd have a camper shell for 'protection' 
I hear ya on those studies though. In the end, you just gotta go with makes the most sense to you and whatever makes you the most comfortable. Otherwise, you'll just totally nuts.
I hear ya on those studies though. In the end, you just gotta go with makes the most sense to you and whatever makes you the most comfortable. Otherwise, you'll just totally nuts.
There was a thread about this on the chat forum a while back. It was specifically discussed that the seat manufactures state not to use both the latch and the seatbelt.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=121247&highlight=child+seat
Frankly, I am appaled at the child seat standards. I had one car that when the seat was properly installed (my 225 pounds putting all the weight I could on it when cenching the belt) that would flop over in turns. The top tether is a step in the right direction, but we really need a front and rear teather strap in addition to a strong, secure, reliable attachment method. If we need to require the seat be installed by a installer, so be it, but as it stands now, the standards are a joke.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=121247&highlight=child+seat
Frankly, I am appaled at the child seat standards. I had one car that when the seat was properly installed (my 225 pounds putting all the weight I could on it when cenching the belt) that would flop over in turns. The top tether is a step in the right direction, but we really need a front and rear teather strap in addition to a strong, secure, reliable attachment method. If we need to require the seat be installed by a installer, so be it, but as it stands now, the standards are a joke.
I work at a Fire Dept. near a very busy hospital and it is always amazing the amount of people who get sent to the station to have the seats installed. (Sadly we do not install them) They are usually frantic and upset about instructions, safety, installation and are near tears when we tell them that we can not install them.
I have seen that most people leave the straps in the seat loose. Not to downplay the strapping the seat to the vehicle, but they are in a sort of "rollcage" and they need to stay in it. It is a major pain in the ass to get a seat in, my kids ride one in the middle row and back of our 99 and I feel good about it.
Kids in car seats come out better in a wreck than the adults in the cars.
Scott
I have seen that most people leave the straps in the seat loose. Not to downplay the strapping the seat to the vehicle, but they are in a sort of "rollcage" and they need to stay in it. It is a major pain in the ass to get a seat in, my kids ride one in the middle row and back of our 99 and I feel good about it.
Kids in car seats come out better in a wreck than the adults in the cars.
Scott
Yeah, they always say not use both latch & seatbelt at the same time. I'm not sure why that's a problem, but I would never do it anyway as it would seem unecessary and messy.
What I was saying regarding the fact that most childseats come with both latch & seatbelt equipped is that the seatbelt method will have the option for an additional rear and/or front anchor... and why not use those along with latch. At least that's my non-expert opinion.
But I'm sure someone will point to some other study 'proving' me wrong... ;p
What I was saying regarding the fact that most childseats come with both latch & seatbelt equipped is that the seatbelt method will have the option for an additional rear and/or front anchor... and why not use those along with latch. At least that's my non-expert opinion.
But I'm sure someone will point to some other study 'proving' me wrong... ;p
The best and easiest child seat I have had (and there have been too many!) was the integrated seat in my Town & Country. The 5 point harness is built into the seat with an automatic retractor. Hook the kid in and pull the strap to see it snug up automatically. Pull the same strap to release. When you don't need a child seat, fold it into the seat back and you're good to go.
I know that most of the major auto manufacturers offer these seats in at least one seating position (not enough) in mini vans and some cars (Volvo). It should be more widely available. The concept is pretty simple and takes up no additional space inside the seat or vehicle.
All the car makers should be jumping at offering solutions, since they have to accomodate kids in 90%+ of all car models. It shocks me that with all the government and CPSC haranguing about the improper use and placement of seat belts that the auto makers have not produced the solution.
I know that most of the major auto manufacturers offer these seats in at least one seating position (not enough) in mini vans and some cars (Volvo). It should be more widely available. The concept is pretty simple and takes up no additional space inside the seat or vehicle.
All the car makers should be jumping at offering solutions, since they have to accomodate kids in 90%+ of all car models. It shocks me that with all the government and CPSC haranguing about the improper use and placement of seat belts that the auto makers have not produced the solution.
Sounds like all of us are doing the right things. Having spent days in a parking lot as one after the other come in and show us their seats just tossed in the back was scary.
In Colorado, a lot of Fire stations are trained to put in seats and there are events all the time to get free assistance.
What amazes me is that some vehicle manufactures do not even have the ratcheting type belts in the back row.
I can't wait until my little 5 year old (yes she is small) gets over that 40lb mark.
In Colorado, a lot of Fire stations are trained to put in seats and there are events all the time to get free assistance.
What amazes me is that some vehicle manufactures do not even have the ratcheting type belts in the back row.
I can't wait until my little 5 year old (yes she is small) gets over that 40lb mark.
