VOTE: HOBART vs. MILLER

[goatgetter]

after doing a good deal of research here and on line, i've decided to "go blue" ...rather than "red" .. only because my local suply shop is a miller dealer and didn't want to deal with any customer service issues in the future.

i just can not decide which one to get...

• Hobart Handler 140 ($500ish)
• Millermatic DVI ($1,000ish)
• Millermatic 210 ($1,300ish)

things to consider:

• i haven't welded in over ten years (when i first learned how to weld).. so i this is a "my first welder" situation.
• i currently do not own my home, so adding 220v outlet in the garage is not an easy upgrade for now.
• i plan to weld the following: axle housings (trusses, spring perches, shock mounts, etc.), frame work (custom t-case crossmember, ifs box mount support, gusset spring perches, shock mounts, etc.), tube work (bumpers, tire carrier, rock sliders, roll cage, etc.)

any advise you can offer would be appreciated. if you own or have used one of these let me know what you think it can/can't handle.

thnx in advance,

~roland

 

[Poser]

210 or 250 Miller....


Figure out a 240V outlet, and be done with it.


Good luck!

-Steve

 

[tltaylor22]

i've got a lincoln 170 at home and the miller 210 at work. Go with the 210 and never look back.

trent

 

[rusmannx]

lincoln 175 pro $635 out the door.

 

[goatgetter]

i have a outlet in the house that meters @ 240v. it's about 75-100 feet away from the garage.. the plug looks sort of like this -|

how long of an extension can i put between this and a 210 welder? and how do i determine what it can handle?

 

[Gus]

Go with the 210 or if there's a chance you can swing it go with a 250, it really sucks realizing that you should have baught a bigger welder. I personally own Lincoln TIG and MIG machines, they work great and are easy to get consumable/parts for (as I'm sure it would be with Miller equipment). Doesn't Miller own Hobart or something like that? Check out the following wesites, they often have some pretty good deals:
www.welders-direct.com
www.usaweld.com
www.aglevtech.net
www.cyberweld.com

 

[goatgetter]

...Doesn't Miller own Hobart or something like that?

yup.. they are manufactured in the same facility from what i've read.

what do you think about the HH180? 230v for about $600.

... & thnx for the links

 

[honk]

I have a Millermatic 210 and it's usually enough. Keep in mind that the model number isn't a reliable indicator of a welders output, or rather it's usable output. I think that home model mig machines are given too much confidence - meaning that an inexperienced person often thinks that such machines are very powerful and can weld most anything when the truth is that most all are maxed out doing single pass welds on 1/4" steel and can't join aluminum larger than 1/8". I think if I do another one the Miller 350 will be it IF I can pull enough amps out of my home supply to power it at it's max.

That's another factor that I never see mentioned here: welders take power in proportion to their output. The miller 210 requires 42 amps at 230 volts to weld at 180 amps.

Hobart and Miller share parentage now. The Hobarts are more of a "consumer" product and uses some cost saving pieces to make the lower price. Lot's of people say that they "love" their Hobarts even while it's in the shop being fixed.

Goatgetter, you aren't going to weld the things you listed safely with a 140 class welder. Cold welds risk lives. I guess that the DVI has uses but I don't like it much. It's a sop for people who don't have the energy to figure out a 220 supply. If I wanted the go anywhere versatility I'd buy the Passport, but I'd know it's limitations and would not have it as a main or single welder.

Get the most power that you can afford and supply. No welder has too much power but plenty of them don't have enough.

 

[goatgetter]

Thank You For All The Help And Advise!!

well it looks like i can narrow it down some.. i can 4get the DVI and the HH140 (bang4buck ratio), and need to look to the 175+ welders and make an extension cord.

it's down to 2.. 2.5 now.. the HH180 ($570ish) & MM210 ($1300ish), unless there is a reason i should pay more for the MM175 ($680ish)?

HH180 & MM175 - Electrical Service Guide:

-Input Voltage - 230V
-Input at Rated Output - 20A
-Max Recommended Standard Fuse Or Circuit Breaker Rating - Circuit Breaker/Time-Delay- 25A (Normal Operating - 30A)
-Min Input Conductor Size - 14AWG
-Max Recommended Input Conductor Length - 67 Feet
-Min Grounding Conductor Size - 14AWG

MM210 - Electrical Service Guide:

-60 Hz Single Phase
-Input Voltage - 230V
-Input at Rated Output - 28A
-Max Recommended Standard Fuse Rating - Time-Delay 30A (Normal Operating - 40A)
-Min Input Conductor Size 10AWG
-Max Recommended Input Conductor Length - 118 Feet
-Min Grounding Conductor Size - 10AWG

...does this mean that the longest extension i can run between the HH180/MM175 is 67 feet & 118 feet for the MM210?

 

[honk]

Well, it's only a recommendation, right? They want to keep you safe and that's good but if you really HAVE to use a longer cord try to find bigger conductors than 10 gauge for the mm210 or 14 for the other. Keep in mind though that those recommendations are made for the respective welder's RATED output which isn't a welders MAXIMUM output. . The rated output for the mm210 is 160 amps but the welder can output more than that and would require bigger supply wires to do it far away from the plug.

I've never really understood why a supply hardwire can be smaller than a recommended extension cord, but that's a different topic.

 

[honk]

Oh, BTW, if you're going to look at 175 sized machines consider the Lincoln 175P (plus?). It's a nice welder with full range driver control over both output current and voltage. Nice feature.

 

[ff347]

duty cycle! We have sold all three (lincoln, hobart & miller) at my part time "opportunity" and if the one thing I hear people complain about is the duty cycle. I think all three are good machines, not some of the reconditioned crap that is out there, for such a deal. If the finances allow, go the 210! My mig fund just got killed by some house repairs, I was 200.00 shy of the 210 It's the little parts that break on them anyway, tried to help a fellow find the wire control for a 15yr old hobart today and he said that it was the first time he's ever had a problem with it.

 

[goatgetter]

HH180 vs. MM175

i understand that it's best to buy as much tool as you can afford from the start, so you will not regret it when you out grow it.. but the MM210 & MMDVI are more than double the cost of the smaller two.

i think i have to decide between the HobartHandler 180 vs. MillerMatic 175...

• HH=tapped amperage range from 25 - 180 vs. MM=infinite control of 30 - 175.
  
• HH@$570 vs. MM@$680
  
• orange vs. blue

i may be over thinking this, but i need someone to talk me into or out of one of these.. please

 

[ff347]

waranty? the miller has the true blue parts/labor 3yrs. The Hobart has 5 on certain parts and 3 on others and 1 on the gun itself. I'm not cruzin' for a date, but what city are you in? I "might" be able to help you in the savings department with a discontinued model, I know we have certain Miller's that have been reduced.
scott

 

[woody]

I've got a MM185, direct from my sales manager buddy at Miller....great unit, I've yet to have one single issue with it...model prior to the 210, which a couple buddies have and love.

.030 wire, mixed gas, and a 50' SO extension cord in the shop.

IMO, you will end up regretting it if you "skrimp" and purchase a smaller unit....a quality welder is a near-lifetime purchase....do it right the first time...

 

[mabrodis]

What about the Lincoln ProMig 175? It's usually quite a bit cheaper than other 175 units (don't look at that 175 though, look at the actual output, which IIRC is 130amps on that unit, maybe 150, can't remember, but compare those numbers when comparing models. Companies like to give a bigger model # because it sounds good. For example, the MM185 (what Woody has) is a very nice welder which as he said was prior to the 210, it is the equivilent of like a 205 or something, puts out a ton of power and will weld 3/8" steel in a single pass (atleast Miller claims it will), however looking at just the model "185" you would think it's only slightly more powerful than say a "175" unit, which isn't really the case, it's a whole nuther notch more powerful than a "175" unit, but when it was made the model numbers were not so highly inflated).

The Lincoln ProMig (comes with all MIG stuff and flux-core stuff) is often under $500 on Ebay with shipping, brand-new, 3 yr warranty, etc...I've used some Lincoln and Miller welders, never noticed any real difference, I think the blue of the Miller looks better, but they all seem to weld the same IMO.

 

[goatgetter]

..I'm not cruzin' for a date, but what city are you in? I "might" be able to help you in the savings department with a discontinued model, I know we have certain Miller's that have been reduced..

i live in southern california (quite a distance away). thanks a bunch for the offer to help out with the discount anyway.. i appreciated that.

i think i am going to end up gettin' the HH180.. the miller was so similar in specs that i decided that the tap controls, versus the infinite adjustability might actually work against a beginner like me.
and i know, that the bigger machine right now would save me cash in the long run.. but for more than double the cost i had to get the most bang for my buck.. HH180@$567..77 to my door was the best i could do right now.

thank all of you who took the time to chime in here.

 

[Junk]

I had a MM175 for awhile. Great little unit. Moved to a 210 and haven't looked back.

If you really are looking at the HH180 vs MM175, I'd go to the HH180 for the occassional user. Why? Well, the tap settings actually help some as it gives them less to "mess" with. What I mean by that is folks usually blame their settings instead of the their technique. So it's one less thing to worry about - it's like a radio for the truck. Get an equalizer and you have more chance to fawk up the sound vs the standard bass/treble etc. Just my view though and what do I know.

MIA ROCK.

 

[ff347]

i live in southern california (quite a distance away). thanks a bunch for the offer to help out with the discount anyway.. i appreciated that.

Well no problem! Distance is not the issue, my part-time job is a nationwide company and I was going to check national stock when I was there tomorrow. Just know how money is! Enjoy whatever you do, sounds like you have good projects on the horizon. Sliders, transfer case skid plate will be mine (after the house projects)

scott

 

[goatgetter]

HH180 vs. MM175

...it's one less thing to worry about - it's like a radio for the truck. Get an equalizer and you have more chance to fawk up the sound vs the standard bass/treble etc...

Exactly why i went with the HH180.. figured i can learn best on a machine with "training wheels" for a while, and step up when i'm ready.. MM350 by then



hey SCOTT, i got a little anxiouse about buying the HH180.. i actually could not sleep last night and got out of bed, jumped on ebay and bought the damn thing!! ..$567.77 to my door rom IOC.

thnx again!