Tree Saver as tow strap ?
- Thread starter CELICA XX
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Basically yes, they can be used in a pinch. But honestly, it would be a lto better to be farther away from the towed vehicle and it is ALWAYS better to use the proper equipment for the job..
Grench
SILVER Star
Can you reverse the logic? Is there anything wrong with getting an extra tow strap and using it as a tree saver?
Grench said:
Yes, The "Snatch" strap stores energy by stretching and when used as a "Tree saver" with a winch could throw metal objects around.
It would also reduce the pulling power of the winch by using some of the power to stretch the strap. A "Tow Strap" should actually have very little stretch. A "recovery strap" should stretch ~20%.
Use the right tool for the job and you are less likely to have problems.
It would be somewhat close to be snatching with a tree trunk protector??????
And if you go out bush with nothing more then 1 T.T.P. you are asking for trouble.
And if you go out bush with nothing more then 1 T.T.P. you are asking for trouble.
NMuzj100 said:Yes, The "Snatch" strap stores energy by stretching and when used as a "Tree saver" with a winch could throw metal objects around.
A "Tow Strap" should actually have very little stretch. A "recovery strap" should stretch ~20%.
Use the right tool for the job and you are less likely to have problems.
That's what Gench said- a TOW strap.
Is there anything wrong with getting an extra TOW strap and using it as a tree saver?
I almost never use my tree saver, MOstly because I live where Large rocks abound and trees don't..
So, the tow strap just works better cause it is longer.
BUT, it is always better to use the proper equipment.
So, the tow strap just works better cause it is longer.
BUT, it is always better to use the proper equipment.
CELICA XX said:
For towing someone a long distance down the road I would think so. But if you don't need the stretch then chains work pretty well and have a lot of advantages too.
Some confusion about Tow strap vs. recovery/snatch strap vs Tree Saver.
I think most of the straps on the market are "snatch type" straps that would be dangerous to use as a winch anchor even though they are labeled "Tow straps".
But if your strap has no stretch, is weight rated for your pull and is wide enough to not damage the anchor point I don't see why you couldn't use it to winch from.
Last edited:
Grench
SILVER Star
I have both a 30,000 lb 4" tow strap AND a 24,000 lb snatch strap and do know the difference, thank you.
To my knowledge, a tree saver is essentially a shortened tow strap. According to the manual that came with my winch, it is better to have the tree saver be as long as practical as this minimizes the angle on the recovery shackle. In many ways, then, is it MORE favorable to use a tow strap?
My main concern in this scenario is actually more to the wear on an expensive tow strap as the bark could generate a weak point in the middle of it with use this way.
To my knowledge, a tree saver is essentially a shortened tow strap. According to the manual that came with my winch, it is better to have the tree saver be as long as practical as this minimizes the angle on the recovery shackle. In many ways, then, is it MORE favorable to use a tow strap?
My main concern in this scenario is actually more to the wear on an expensive tow strap as the bark could generate a weak point in the middle of it with use this way.
Grench
SILVER Star
Grench said:
OK, so I started rethinking this logic. Any recovery strap, or even a winch cable for that matter, will store energy. Straps, all straps will have some stretch. A tow strap & a recovery strap will have -some- stretch. A snatch strap is a big bungee that stretches a lot.
For rigging equipment it is a better idea to have less stretch. The reason for this is to decrease the amount of energy stored and decrease the distance (and speed) that stuff flies when other stuff breaks.
The ideal tree saver would have no stretch.
As far as pulling a vehicle a short distance using the tree strap... Don't let it drag if you can avoid it. We've all done the redneck tow truck before though. Six feet of chain and the guy in the back drags the brakes.
Its all dangerous. The question is how to minimize the points of failure.
Grench said:
I think this may be one of the reasons most "tree-savers" are kept pretty short. As the length increases so does the total energy potential of the strap.
- Thread starter
- #13
Grench said:
Can you explain this a little better?
I am new to 4x4's and do not quite understand this quote.
And just for clarification (correct me if I'm wrong):
Tow strap = non-strech
Tree saver = non-strech
Winch extension strap = non-strech
Snatch Strap = STRECH
Tree saver = non-strech
Winch extension strap = non-strech
Snatch Strap = STRECH
CELICA XX said:
Thats how I would label them but I think a lot of straps labeled "Tow Straps" do stretch so you have to be careful to know what you have.
Recovery stap = Stretch ?
Grench
SILVER Star
NMuzj100 said:
Otherwise known as a snatch strap. They're a real big bungee.
Grench
SILVER Star
Need an expert, I'm not one. Just a lot of opinion.
I'm not an expert on winching. And I'd REALY like it if someone who is could step in and correct anything I've said or will say in this post.
Check out the shackle maker's web sites or the winch manual for diagrams.
http://catalog.thecrosbygroup.com/
Sling shackles rated tonage is at a straight line pull. As the angle of 2 ends of a sling get farther appart, the rated tonage drops. So much so that many of the shackle makers have a different rating for their shackles when used with sling connection angles of 45 degrees or greater.
Find page 68 in the catalog on the crosby site.
At 90 degrees the shackle strength is HALVED.
So, the closer to center that the sling (tree saver) straps are, the better the shackle can deal with it.
I'm a poor one to lead this discussion, because frankly, I've only read about it. I did a bit of crane rig loading on a summer job years ago, and have researched it a bit since. I only connected power to my winch 2 weeks ago and have never unspooled it yet. I tend to overplan though.
Thus, I have a Crosby 1017604 15 ton shackle for use with my tree strap.
My simple calculations requiring this monster:
Warn M12000 winch capable of (in theory) a 12,000 lb straight line pull. Run through an ARB 30,000 lb snatch block = 24,000 lb pull at the block with said winch. The block is likely to be connected to a tree strap. The strap needs to be rated at 24,000 lb +. The shackle is going to be receiving the ends of the strap in a sling application. I.e. the two ends of the strap will feed into the shackle at something other than straight. As long as this angle is less than 120 degrees with equal pull to both sides, the shackle is at full capacity of 30,000 lbs.
The simple rule is to make the winch the weak link. Have working capacity on everything else in excess of what the winch can apply to it. For snatch blocks, double the capacity of the winch. Whatever the snatch block is connected to should be rated at or in excess of the block. A 15 ton shackle is a BIG shackle and will not fit in your recovery points. It fits nicely in the loop of a snatch block though. Don't have a coronary when you see the price.
Now, someone with more experience PLEASE tell me where I got this wrong before someone kills themselves? Yeah, btw... if anything fails on your rigging there is a high chance to loose limbs &/or death. Stay the freek out of the way when that thing has load on it. There has to be a thread around here about proper winching techniques and safety.
CELICA XX said:
I'm not an expert on winching. And I'd REALY like it if someone who is could step in and correct anything I've said or will say in this post.
Check out the shackle maker's web sites or the winch manual for diagrams.
http://catalog.thecrosbygroup.com/
Sling shackles rated tonage is at a straight line pull. As the angle of 2 ends of a sling get farther appart, the rated tonage drops. So much so that many of the shackle makers have a different rating for their shackles when used with sling connection angles of 45 degrees or greater.
Find page 68 in the catalog on the crosby site.
At 90 degrees the shackle strength is HALVED.
So, the closer to center that the sling (tree saver) straps are, the better the shackle can deal with it.
I'm a poor one to lead this discussion, because frankly, I've only read about it. I did a bit of crane rig loading on a summer job years ago, and have researched it a bit since. I only connected power to my winch 2 weeks ago and have never unspooled it yet. I tend to overplan though.
Thus, I have a Crosby 1017604 15 ton shackle for use with my tree strap.
My simple calculations requiring this monster:
Warn M12000 winch capable of (in theory) a 12,000 lb straight line pull. Run through an ARB 30,000 lb snatch block = 24,000 lb pull at the block with said winch. The block is likely to be connected to a tree strap. The strap needs to be rated at 24,000 lb +. The shackle is going to be receiving the ends of the strap in a sling application. I.e. the two ends of the strap will feed into the shackle at something other than straight. As long as this angle is less than 120 degrees with equal pull to both sides, the shackle is at full capacity of 30,000 lbs.
The simple rule is to make the winch the weak link. Have working capacity on everything else in excess of what the winch can apply to it. For snatch blocks, double the capacity of the winch. Whatever the snatch block is connected to should be rated at or in excess of the block. A 15 ton shackle is a BIG shackle and will not fit in your recovery points. It fits nicely in the loop of a snatch block though. Don't have a coronary when you see the price.
Now, someone with more experience PLEASE tell me where I got this wrong before someone kills themselves? Yeah, btw... if anything fails on your rigging there is a high chance to loose limbs &/or death. Stay the freek out of the way when that thing has load on it. There has to be a thread around here about proper winching techniques and safety.
4 wheel parts just added a new tree saver to their line, a procomp, that is really strong but only 6 feet long...does anyone see that as a problem? to short?
here is the link
http://www.4wheelparts.com/PPT1884T5522.aspx
thanks
barrypt5
here is the link
http://www.4wheelparts.com/PPT1884T5522.aspx
thanks
barrypt5
lowenbrau
SILVER Star
That'd be just right around here here the largest tree in the province is probably 24" across. I would be looking for something longer if I were wheeling in the PNW or the Redwood forest.
The real lesson here is to be mindful of where you are storing energy. I've seen lots of guys pull parts off trucks piece by piece by using a length of chain as a tuggum strap. I've dealt with the hassle of towing for many miles with a stretchy tuggum. Neither were appropriate for the job (nor was using a chain as a booster/jumper cable) but sometimes you have to use what you have. I think some people who wheel with me think I'm schizophrenic because in some situations I'll let people gather around the winch cable and watch the extraction and other times I bawl them out for not staying 50 yards back into the trees. Its a good thing to think through any rigging exercise and try to figure out the failure points and the impact that a failure can have. The one place you can store a lot of energy that no one takes into consideration is the suspension of the vehicles. If the winching vehicle is pointing above the winch line you can create a perfect scenario for a flying winch cable if anything breaks down line.