Toyota 8" rear vs. Dana 44 rear

[thardy]

So I'm getting ready to build my 96 4runner. I don't want to go full width so I am putting a Waggy D44 in the front (this is already decided). My question is on the rear. What is the strength difference between my Toyota rear and a Dana 44 rear? A little info on both axles.

Toyota: Pros, it is currently under my 4runner. It does have the E-locker.
cons, I know nothing about it. I'm Limited to 4.88 gears to match the front 44 and I would like to go lower.

Dana 44: Pros, Detroit locker, I can match gears anywhere from 3.73 to 5.89, I have spare parts, I know how to work on them,
cons, ?

I have both axles so its not a matter of which one I have. It's more which one do I want to sell. Which do you recommend?

 

[Combat Chuck]

I think gunpoint's the only way you could get me to advocate a Detroit locker over an e-locker.
Not for any delusions such as quality or superiority, but a locked axle on the road is a deathtrap in the winter. It's safer to make it selectable.

 

[thardy]

It won't be a DD. It will be street legal but not a DD.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW I had very little noticeable issues with a full detroit locker in the rear of either my 84 minitruck or my landcruiser. The lunchbox lockers are much more intrusive. (And I lived in Montana with plenty of icy roads - I'm actually not sure where the claim of poor icy performance comes from as I never really noticed any problem on ice with the rear locker. The front wasn't all that bad either.)

That said, I'll take a Toyota e-locker any day over a detroit or ARB.

 

[thardy]

Sounds like i will probably stick with the toy axle then. Thanks guys.

 

[Combat Chuck]

FWIW I had very little noticeable issues with a full detroit locker in the rear of either my 84 minitruck or my landcruiser. The lunchbox lockers are much more intrusive. (And I lived in Montana with plenty of icy roads - I'm actually not sure where the claim of poor icy performance comes from as I never really noticed any problem on ice with the rear locker. The front wasn't all that bad either.)

That said, I'll take a Toyota e-locker any day over a detroit or ARB.

Good to know. I sometimes confuse the Aussie/Lunchbox with the Detroit because I tend to assume they're just a fixed unit, but it sounds like some have more going on than others.

 

[Jetboy]

Good to know. I sometimes confuse the Aussie/Lunchbox with the Detroit because I tend to assume they're just a fixed unit, but it sounds like some have more going on than others.

I should clarify that I had a Detroit soft locker rather than the original Detroit locker. IIRC they are very similar with a slightly different system for engaging. Anyway it was silent, and without a full lock turn on pavement you wouldn't ever know it was there until you went offroad.

The EZ locker and other similar ones work great offroad. I don't think strength is a major issue with them. They are a lot noiser, clunkier, and have a lot of slop in them compared to a Detroit soft locker.

I'm not sure it's worth the $ for a dedicated offroader, but for a daily driver, as I said I'd go e-locker first, Detroit softlocker 2nd, and ARB third. In a front application I would go e-locker, ARB, detroit. Selectability in the front is much more important IMO.

 

[Combat Chuck]

More good info.
I hadn't realized they had different types of lockers, I just thought it was the original style - basically a fixed carrier, not a "soft locker" as you say.

I'm personally curious about that new Zip locker by Yukon. I've had good experiences with Yukon's gearsets, and I'm hopeful for this. We'll see.

I also agree with you, selectability is vital to me, my truck is a featherweight First-Gen pickup, and I spin out on damp roads with an open rear without sandbags. Working nights, last thing I want is to eat a hillside commuting to work.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm not familiar with the zip locker. I'm not a fan of air lockers. They have their place, but air adds a lot of complexity to a simple system and lots of failure points. IMO it's not an accident that Toyota who takes great pride in its reliability and the offroad worthiness of its vehicles does not use air lockers. IMO it would be extremely difficult to build an air locker that will reliably function for 30 years without major overhaul. Elockers aren't always reliable, but I believe they are a more reliable system than that of an ARB style unit.

 

[Combat Chuck]

I agree, my life philosophy is "Keep it simple, stupid", but I lean toward air lockers because it's harder, and less cost-effective to find parts for the Toyota E-Lockers.

I agree that Toyota's quality is unmatched, but if I'm in the middle of nowhere with a group of folks, the odds of someone in there running an ARB with spares seems a little more likely.
Of course, I'm willing to be wrong on that one.

 

[Jetboy]

I agree, my life philosophy is "Keep it simple, stupid", but I lean toward air lockers because it's harder, and less cost-effective to find parts for the Toyota E-Lockers.

I agree that Toyota's quality is unmatched, but if I'm in the middle of nowhere with a group of folks, the odds of someone in there running an ARB with spares seems a little more likely.
Of course, I'm willing to be wrong on that one.

The beauty of the e-locker is you can manually engage or disengage with a screwdriver. Try that with your airlocker If you blow up a diff, I think you're in the same boat either way, although the E-locker housing would be an issue if your only spare is a std diff and it's a lot more likely that you'll find an open 8" toyota diff somewhere cheap to limp home than finding an e-locker lying around.

OTOH there are a lot more Toyota dealer than ARB dealers, and a lot more e-lockers sold in the US than ARBs.

There are plenty of people who swear by air lockers. If it were me, I'd put a "T" fitting in the air line just outside the diff housing, and a small valve on the line going to the compressor. On the other port of the fitting I'd install a shraeder valve. If your compressor bites the dust in a water crossing or any of the other parts upstream fail, you could close the valve and engage the locker with any air supply, even a small bicycle hand pump would work. If you blow an internal seal, not much you can do about that.

 

[Combat Chuck]

The beauty of the e-locker is you can manually engage or disengage with a screwdriver. Try that with your airlocker If you blow up a diff, I think you're in the same boat either way, although the E-locker housing would be an issue if your only spare is a std diff and it's a lot more likely that you'll find an open 8" toyota diff somewhere cheap to limp home than finding an e-locker lying around.

OTOH there are a lot more Toyota dealer than ARB dealers, and a lot more e-lockers sold in the US than ARBs.

There are plenty of people who swear by air lockers. If it were me, I'd put a "T" fitting in the air line just outside the diff housing, and a small valve on the line going to the compressor. On the other port of the fitting I'd install a shraeder valve. If your compressor bites the dust in a water crossing or any of the other parts upstream fail, you could close the valve and engage the locker with any air supply, even a small bicycle hand pump would work. If you blow an internal seal, not much you can do about that.

Interesting.
Yeah, I'm beginning to see the truth.

 

[Chop Shop]

So much speculation in here.

The Elocker is great if it came in your rig or of you got it for nothing and are crafty enough to install it for free. Then you need to be thrifty enough to find another one for cheap so you can relax knowing you have extra parts.

Or

Buck Up and spend some $LOOT$ on an ARB and enjoy the reliability and quality of a good product that is serviceable and has TONS of tech support. Good luck finding a "TRD tech" at the tin benders to help you with a problem with your locker. I have seen ARB guys pull miracles for people at small level events even.

I will also say 99 percent of ARB failures are due to IMPROPER installation. Yep I said it, its your fault your ARB had problems. Put it in right and they work perfect for years.


I have built tons of axles with both kinds of lockers.

I have a FJ80 elocker in the front of my truck.

 

[whitelightning]

More good info.
I hadn't realized they had different types of lockers, I just thought it was the original style - basically a fixed carrier, not a "soft locker" as you say.

I'm personally curious about that new Zip locker by Yukon. I've had good experiences with Yukon's gearsets, and I'm hopeful for this. We'll see.

I also agree with you, selectability is vital to me, my truck is a featherweight First-Gen pickup, and I spin out on damp roads with an open rear without sandbags. Working nights, last thing I want is to eat a hillside commuting to work.

ARB Air locker vs Yukon Zip locker
‪ARB Air Locker vs Yukon Zip Locker‬‏ - YouTube