Stick or Auto

[drfdog]

I am a new user and love the Site! I have ordered a FJ and I went with the auto. I originally wanted a stick but when I found out that it only comes with all wheel drive I had to switch. I live in sunny southern Cal and cannot justify AWD. Anyone have any more insight into toyota's auto tranny? Good bad or indifferent.

Thanks
Dog

 

[Noisycow]

An auto is the only FJ I have driven, but I'd say you picked a winner. Normally, I'd only go with a manual, but the auto is strong and smooth - many hard core 'my truck is always in the dirt' types love the FJ auto.

 

[TexasBadlands]

I am a new user and love the Site! I have ordered a FJ and I went with the auto. I originally wanted a stick but when I found out that it only comes with all wheel drive I had to switch. I live in sunny southern Cal and cannot justify AWD. Anyone have any more insight into toyota's auto tranny? Good bad or indifferent.

Thanks
Dog

Actually, it's NOT All Wheel Drive. There's a BIG difference. It's full time four wheel drive. I went with the Full Time Four Wheel Drive 6 speed, and no I don't care about gas mileage

 

[drfdog]

Sorry my mistake, I know what all wheel drive is ie: Subaru's. Maybe you can explain exactly how FULL TIME FOUR WHEEL DRIVE works. I would think that it is along the same lines as the old jeep grand cherokee? But not sure. Also maybe you can elaborate on some examples as to the differences in applicatiion between full time 4x4 and all wheel drive.

thanks
Dog

 

[TexasBadlands]

On Full time 4 wheel drive vehicles with 2 speed transfer cases, the distribution of power is about 80/20 in 4-Hi (80% being to the rear drive wheels), and then when shifted to 4-Lo is 50/50. With an AWD vehicle, it has a single speed case and is always 80/20 or thereabouts. In other words, and AWD vehicle is like being in 4-Hi all the time in a full time FWD vehicle, without being able to shift down to transfer power equally to the front and rear drive shafts.



I still don't care about MPG either

 

[Beowulf]

On Full time 4 wheel drive vehicles with 2 speed transfer cases, the distribution of power is about 80/20 in 4-Hi (80% being to the rear drive wheels)

The VF4B transfer (w/Torsen-C) used in the MT FJC is 40/60 (F/R) and changes the bias if the front or rear slips. If the rear slips, the Torsen-C still gives 50% to the rear.

-B-

 

[Blues Dawg]

The FJC manual says its a 70/30 (R/F) distribution? The FJC also has something I've not previously encountered in my 4WD vehicles, a 4H Lock, which locks the xfer case @ 50/50 in the high range. Works nice in sand and loose rocky roads.

 

[Beowulf]

The FJC manual says its a 70/30 (R/F) distribution?

Which FJC manual are you referring to?

-B-

 

[greenfox]

Go with the 6 speed ask me how I know.

 

[TexasBadlands]

80/20 is a general reference only. Specifics are found in each type of vehicles owners manual. I was giving an example.

 

[greenfox]

I had lead two fj cruisers on the Rubicon trail this past week, the 6 speed out wheeled out performed go with the 6!

 

[Beowulf]

Specifics are found in each type of vehicles owners manual.

I've read the FJC Owner's Manual and the Factory Service Manual. Neither give the specifics on the torque split for the FT transfer. My information (40/60 F/R) comes from the engineers that designed and built the transfer.

-B-

 

[TexasBadlands]

I've read the FJC Owner's Manual and the Factory Service Manual. Neither give the specifics on the torque split for the FT transfer. My information (40/60 F/R) comes from the engineers that designed and built the transfer.

-B-

Well, good for you. That wasn't the point of this at all now was it? The point was that AWD vehicles have much less in the front than the rear.

 

[FirstToy]

Well, good for you. That wasn't the point of this at all now was it? The point was that AWD vehicles have much less in the front than the rear.

If the point of all this is a sweeping generalzation

AWD vehicles have much less in the front than the rear

you opened the door of specifics by stating this

always 80/20 or thereabouts

Beowulf, greenfox & auphrode were simply trying to give factual info to readers

here's something to knock your think-tank on

fulltime 4wd= 1 wheel drive
4wd w/ CDL=2 wheel drive
CDL w/RR Locker= 3 wheel drive
FR locker/RR locker= 4wheel drive

So, unless you are locked fr/rr, you don't really have a 4 wheel drive vehicle Am I wrong?

 

[drfdog]

Thank you guys and gals. I appreciate all your input. I really do not like auto's but given the fact that I live in sunny south cal and this will be my daily driver I will probally stick with an auto. I drive a ten speed daily, so maybe a little less shifting will be ok. This rig will also be used for towing my sea-doo's to the Ocean and lakes. Now I will be able to leave the skii's at the hotel and go wheeling as well. I lemon lawed my 05 F-350 Diesel in March and have been driving the kids 87 volvo 240 since then. No power but does great donuts in the mud. I have owned a 69 FJ40 with a chevy 350, power steering, and four wheel disc brakes. It was a blast to wheel but not much fun when it came to commuting. Unless of course someone took up two parking spots!! that is where the custom bumper and 12,000 warn came in handy. Anyway thanks again for all your input.
Dog

 

[Beowulf]

TBL,

After you pointed out to drfdog that the MT FJC is not AWD, drfdog asked:

Maybe you can explain exactly how FULL TIME FOUR WHEEL DRIVE works.

In this context, it is assumed he wants to know exactly how the FT 4WD works in the FJC (this is afterall, the FJC Technical section.)

My post wasn't meant to bust your chops. My post was meant to address technical inaccuracies in your reply specific to the FT transfer in the FJC.

The VF4B transfer case is an outstanding piece of engineering and is used worldwide in various Land Cruisers. The Torsen-C is a major advancement in (non-computerized) technology. The method and % of torque that is distributed between F&R is critical to understanding the Torsen-C. The fact that even when the front is slipping, 50% of the torque still goes to the rear, is a major advancement for Toyota.

I would be happy to host a link to the full PDF document for those that are interested in the engineering that went into their FJC. It is a good read with lotsa graphs and pictures for the technically challenged (no offense TBL )

I don't think I can attach a PDF but if there is interest then someone speak up and maybe James can figure out a way for it to be loaded to 'Mud.

Auphrode stated there is an FJC manual that says the torque split is 30/70 (F/R) and I would be interested in the source. The reason is again, not to bust his chops, but to get factual information. My source is an engineering document for the VF4B transfer case and the document specifically mentions the torque split can be changed with different planetary gears. The document was written before the FJC was a product. I would like to know if Toyota used different planetary gears on the FJC which would mean it has a (slightly) different version of the VF4B and that information would be a new technical fact.

:flickleftear: :flickrightear:



-B-

 

[Blues Dawg]

I need to go back and re-read, but I think it was probably in the FJ Cruiser bulletin/brochure toyota released in the section discussing the A-trac and lock. Or maybe I read it in the owners manual, or maybe I was hallucinating. The question mark after the statement was my personal disclaimer , now I've gotta go back and find where I read it

 

[Beowulf]

The question mark after the statement was my personal disclaimer , now I've gotta go back and find where I read it

Memory disclaimers are allowed only if you're over 40.

I reread the OM, the FSM, the NCF, and the Issue:: 01 technical brochure that the FJC team gave out at Moab. I also reread the sales brochure that gives a lot of technical details and compares features to the Xterra, H3, and the Wrangler. I could not find a mention of the torque split... but that's a lot of information and it could have been missed. Please post back if you can find where you saw that data if it was in material from Toyota. A post in another forum doesn't count.

-B-

 

[TexasBadlands]

On Full time 4 wheel drive vehicles with 2 speed transfer cases, the distribution of power is about 80/20 in 4-Hi (80% being to the rear drive wheels), and then when shifted to 4-Lo is 50/50. With an AWD vehicle, it has a single speed case and is always 80/20 or thereabouts. In other words, and AWD vehicle is like being in 4-Hi all the time in a full time FWD vehicle, without being able to shift down to transfer power equally to the front and rear drive shafts.



I still don't care about MPG either

Notice no mention of FJ Cruiser in this statement. Notice the generalization of HOW AWD works. In AWD, the front drive is almost always a good bit off from the rear in power distribution, which is demonstrated in the example. The original poster did not ask for specifics on the FJC, just how AWD works compared to Full Time 4wd.

 

[Beowulf]

Perhaps we're getting too technical for the FJC section, if so then James can speak up and I'll stop posting corrections.

TBL is linking the 2-speed transfer to the FT 4WD as though these 2 are related. He says "shifting down to transfer power equally" as though the 50-50 torque split is dependent on low-range.

The following explanation is not FJC specific though it applies to the FJC with the FT 4wd transfer:
======================================================

The reader should know that FT 4WD is NOT related to the presence or absence of a 2-speed transfer case. FT 4WD does NOT depend on being in low-range. These are mechanically unrelated though Toyota, in the US market, "linked" these in some models by automatically, via an electronic switch, locking the center differential when the transfer is shifted to low range.

The important fact (for those that still care) that was completely omitted in TBL's explanation is: FT 4WD vehicles have a center differential; a 3rd diff as it were. 50/50 F/R torque split is forced when the center differential is locked (2wd in James' thought provoking post.) One can drive all day with the center diff locked and in High range. And... one can drive all day long in Low Range with the center diff unlocked.

-B-