Shell renewable diesel high egt?

[chelo]

My local shell has introduced their renewable diesel and for the first time, I did a full tank load. It wasn't until I was driving back home from a mini trip up the coast I started to notice instant high temp under boost.
For example while cruising on the freeway on a small incline and giving it a decent amount of throttle it spiked to 1400f in about 4-5 seconds. I find that incredible. It has been always a around 900ish f going up the sierra and nit even close to that on he freeway.
I have tried other fuels and never had this issue. Neither with propel or 76 renewable. Is it a coincidence? Thoughts ?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Thoughts are that I need an EGT gauge, pronto.

Been running R99 from a local small station supplier for months now, but with no EGT gauge I've no clue what's going on there. Prado seems to love it, runs much quieter and exhaust smells much better.

Do you have a boost gauge? Clean air filter? R99 is supposed to be ~5% less BTUs than dino diesel, so should in theory result in lower EGTs for the same volume of fuel, but if you have less airflow that might cause the problem and have nothing to do with the R99.

 

[chelo]

Thoughts are that I need an EGT gauge, pronto.

Been running R99 from a local small station supplier for months now, but with no EGT gauge I've no clue what's going on there. Prado seems to love it, runs much quieter and exhaust smells much better.

Do you have a boost gauge? Clean air filter? R99 is supposed to be ~5% less BTUs than dino diesel, so should in theory result in lower EGTs for the same volume of fuel, but if you have less airflow that might cause the problem and have nothing to do with the R99.

I do have a boost gauge aswell. Filter is clean. I only drive the 80 for longer trips and no offoad really.
One thing I noticed on this fuel is that the smell was strong. I've used it in the past but it was mixed with what was in the tank. This time I was fully on empty.

 

[OM617YOTA]

That it smells strong makes me think you got something other than R99.

I definitely need to get my boost and EGT gauges installed.

 

[db3]

I've run Shell, as well as other biodiesel fuels in my 1Hz with no change in EGT's or performance.

 

[jayp2]

I've run Shell, as well as other biodiesel fuels in my 1Hz with no change in EGT's or performance.

Problem with biodiesel is that it generally not a consistent product in no small part due to different oil stock used to create it.

There may be exceptions to that but my experiences with it when I ran it in a TDI were....."variable"

I have too much money in my vehicles to mess with BioD and they will never see anything other than dino d

 

[db3]

Problem with biodiesel is that it generally not a consistent product in no small part due to different oil stock used to create it.

There may be exceptions to that but my experiences with it when I ran it in a TDI were....."variable"

I have too much money in my vehicles to mess with BioD and they will never see anything other than dino d

From what I can determine, there are only a couple of sources of biodiesel in the San Francisco bay area, primarily Valero. Unfortunately, my research didn't give me any clarity as to what exactly the composition was, let alone the percentages. Further complicating the problem is most stations in my area do not even post what the actual percentage biodiesel is, just indicating it is a biodiesel blend. I noted a posting on one Valero pump indicated it could be up to 95%. That is what initially prompted my research, as I thought the limit was 20%. The California Air Resources Board had numerous articles relating to the issue of diesel emissions, specifically how it changes with the various blends, so obviously the compositions vary. After hours of frustrating searching, I gave up. Recently, most stations, at least in my area, appear to be suppling biodiesel. Don't know where I can get conventional diesel in my area.

 

[mudgudgeon]

R99 is supposed to be ~5% less BTUs than dino diesel, so should in theory result in lower EGTs for the same volume of fuel,

Not sure it's that simple.

Lower energy density means you'll be dumping more fuel in to get the same output.

Not sure what that means in terms of EGT.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Not sure it's that simple.

Lower energy density means you'll be dumping more fuel in to get the same output.

Not sure what that means in terms of EGT.

That's why I said "for the same volume of fuel." If you're injecting more fuel to make up for the lower density and getting the same overall BTU content, it should be the same EGT.

Should.

 

[mudgudgeon]

That's why I said "for the same volume of fuel." If you're injecting more fuel to make up for the lower density and getting the same overall BTU content, it should be the same EGT.

Should.

I saw that, but who drives based on putting their foot on the gas to deliver "the same volume of fuel".
We step on the skinny pedal until we get the power output we want, not how much fuel the pump is delivering.

I don't have the technical knowledge to break down my thoughts.
I do know in Australia, LPG/ Propane fumigation was popular on diesels for a while.
It changes the ignition point, flame propogation speed, alters combustion characteristics, including higher EGTs, and was responsible for a lot of cracked pistons, all for dubious claimed increases in power and economy.

All that to say, i don't think it's necessarily as simple as saying list BTU equals lower EGT in real world driving scenarios. Maybe it is?

 

[OM617YOTA]

I saw that, but who drives based on putting their foot on the gas to deliver "the same volume of fuel".
We step on the skinny pedal until we get the power output we want, not how much fuel the pump is delivering.

I don't have the technical knowledge to break down my thoughts.
I do know in Australia, LPG/ Propane fumigation was popular on diesels for a while.
It changes the ignition point, flame propogation speed, alters combustion characteristics, including higher EGTs, and was responsible for a lot of cracked pistons, all for dubious claimed increases in power and economy.

All that to say, i don't think it's necessarily as simple as saying list BTU equals lower EGT in real world driving scenarios. Maybe it is?

Right, but max power at WOT will be lower with lower density fuel, in theory that means lower EGT. In theory, should, insert qualifier here. I feel like a politician.

Looking forward to getting my EGT gauge installed and finding out for myself how theory translates to real world, at least in my individual scenario with my own 1kz.

 

[chelo]

Right, but max power at WOT will be lower with lower density fuel, in theory that means lower EGT. In theory, should, insert qualifier here. I feel like a politician.

Looking forward to getting my EGT gauge installed and finding out for myself how theory translates to real world, at least in my individual scenario with my own 1kz.

It can definitely be an eye opener in temp. With the diesel, it feels like I have to be more eyes on temp gauge.
In the bay area there are a quite a few stations that clean diesel. I generally stay with the known brands. 76 has a clean diesel too and that has always been good, but like I mentioned earlier, "propel" seems to run the cleanest. My local propel no longer carries diesel. Just e85 gas.
I'll add some redline diesel additive and see if it does anything.

 

[PBcuiser]

Ive been using the renewable stuff from 76s where I can get it. No issues in my 1HZ.

To be clear renewable diesel is NOT the same as biodiesel. I believe the process to make it is totally different - the feedstock is not veg oil but rather some sort of biomass biproduct. This is why you can run renewable in vehicles not set up to run Bio.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Any feedstock that can be used for biodiesel can also be used for renewable diesel, plus a few more. Yes the process is completely different.

Got my EGT probe installed this weekend, still need to do the in-dash bits. Going to replace the factory double DIN stereo with a single DIN stereo and a plate to hold a pile of Auber Instruments displays.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Got my EGT gauge in. Normal driving I don't top 1000F. Spirited driving, 1250 for short periods. Taking off from a stop and flooring it till 120km/h, got to 1350 for a few seconds. Warmer than I'd like, but in my normal use I don't see this being any issue.

Not sure exactly what fuel mix I'm running at the moment, some dino some renewable diesel. Plan is to run the tank down, refill with dino, drive and watch EGTs, then run the tank down again, refill with renewable, drive and watch EGTs again. Will report back in a couple weeks.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Welp, turns out my data on this is garbage and I may not be able to help with the R99 vs. EGT issue.

The station I go to that was previously selling R99 is having trouble getting it, so they're selling B5, and have been for awhile. Thought I had an R99/B5 mix in my tank before, reality is I had no clue what I had in the tank before, and not sure where I can get R99 now.

Will report back if/when this changes.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Alrighty, found another R99 pump. Ran tank down to 1/8th, refilled with R99. No change in EGTs, even duplicating the 0-120kmh sprint from before. Same road, same stop sign, same hill. Circle K station, might be different R99 than Shell, but should be similar results.

I won't be continuing to run it. I had to go miles out of my way and drive past a station selling dino diesel at $3.30/gal to pay $4.36/gal for R99.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Alrighty, gotta revisit this one.

Rotating through my stock of stored diesel. Ran my tank of dino diesel down to half, then dumped in a 5 gallon can of stored diesel, which happened to be R99.

Bam, ridiculous EGTs. For the first time since installing the EGT gauge, I've had to consciously monitor my EGT in normal driving and back off the throttle to keep my poor motor from melting down. Had to creep up a hill that I drive every day at normal highway speeds without issue. 60mph cruise temp ~150F higher than normal, on the throttle temps ~300F higher than normal.

Seems like all dino is fine, all renewable is fine, somewhere in between there's a mix that requires careful monitoring.

My main takeway is that all turbo diesels need to have an EGT gauge. Had I been towing on this mix without an EGT gauge I bet I'd be asking where the best place to buy a 1KZ head is right now.

 

[Outono]

Super strange man. I've run Propel renewable diesel pretty often in my truck since I got it roughly 8 years ago and never saw any weirdness. Just recently, I tried R99 from Shell on a 4 hour drive up north and had no EGT swings. On the way home, tried the new Chevron renewable and....also no EGT difference.

Im running a rebuilt 1HD-T and IP so its a healthy setup. In fact, when I run renewable, I find the engine runs quieter, likely due to the increased cetane compared to standard diesel.

 

[TheBussman]

Wonder if there is any chance its contaminated with gasoline or some other petroleum product. I've seen alot of damage to diesel exhaust systems that have been mis fueled. Most of them where some mix of gas and diesel and were running just fine until they had exhaust system codes. Sensors and DPF melted then tested the fuel and found the gas...