Builds Red Wagon - 1 Tons, LS/SM465/NP205 Build

[Bama4door]

internal gas pump (inside the tank) is the better option. I have a walbro external pump and its been fine and you can hear it from outside the truck if you are close to the passenger side frame, but its not that bad (it does not bother me). But all things considered a in-tank fuel pump is best. Yea I can change my fuel pump on the ground without removal of the gas tank but thats really not that much of a plus, given that I've never had to do that.

Talk to mosley motors on in-tank fuel pump setup, II believe he did a nice write up some-where or maybe he has info on his web site.

I talked to Mosley a few weeks ago and he’s still running the in-line Walbro Pump on his 5.3 60 swap.

Is the main attraction to the in-tank Pump strictly noise? I’m not sure I’ve ready many negatives other than that. Not having to drop the tank is nice too.

 

[Elbert]

of course now you need one of those black box setups from North-West Fab. Seriously...my view on the 60, is that you are going to hit a point of reality as to how much a 60 weighs and how long it is...vs whatever drive-train components you have. I have a 60 and I enjoy screwing around with it, but in reality it is a long heavy tank on the trails. The V8 swap made the fun factor go up and likely the same if I had swapped a diesel of some flavor as well.

14 bolt drivetrain with disks has to be a major improvement in brakes as on3 plus and I'm sure they are close to indistructible based on "sane" driving. Does the truck have hydra-boost or do you plan to add that.

 

[Elbert]

I talked to Mosley a few weeks ago and he’s still running the in-line Walbro Pump on his 5.3 60 swap.

Is the main attraction to the in-tank Pump strictly noise? I’m not sure I’ve ready many negatives other than that. Not having to drop the tank is nice too.

for some people it might be noise, but not all external fuel pumps are that noisy, (it depends), for one ...how the external fuel pump is mounted and or insulated. I don't see or know of any performance issues , other than I've heard that external fuel pumps might be problematic in high heat areas (out west) but I don't have first hand experience with that (not that I question that heat soak can be a problem).

The plus to internal fuel pump is that its cooled by the fuel and failures are supposedly less of a problem. Yes it will be more expensive to setup an internal fuel pump. I've never gotten motivated to change to an in-tank fuel pump. Guess if I got stranded out in the desert somewhere I might change my mind (if due to fuel pump issues).

Noise is subjective and as noted it also matters how you mount the external fuel pump. I've had great service from my walbro external fuel pump. Unless I find some technical reason to change ...I will stay with what I have. I've had the walbro pump on my 5.7 vortec from day one of the engine swap. I did change the pump one time but that was just me chasing a fuel issue that turned out to be something else.

 

[MoaByte]

You can get a trap door to rivet on your cargo floor to access the in tank pump (Ask Cam).If you utilize the OE tank, the mounting straps will greatly reduced the pump noise. Long range tanks are solid mounted so it transfers the noise vibrations. I don't mind, as it's a huge convenience, but I will looking for remedies).

 

[Bama4door]

of course now you need one of those black box setups from North-West Fab. Seriously...my view on the 60, is that you are going to hit a point of reality as to how much a 60 weighs and how long it is...vs whatever drive-train components you have. I have a 60 and I enjoy screwing around with it, but in reality it is a long heavy tank on the trails. The V8 swap made the fun factor go up and likely the same if I had swapped a diesel of some flavor as well.

14 bolt drivetrain with disks has to be a major improvement in brakes as on3 plus and I'm sure they are close to indistructible based on "sane" driving. Does the truck have hydra-boost or do you plan to add that.

A black box would be pretty sweet to have...one day.

It doesn’t have hydroboost brakes currently. It’s still running the stock 60 master and booster, but I bought a Sky manufacturing adapter that will allow me to run a GM 1 ton master on the stock 60 booster. Should help a lot.

 

[Elbert]

everything I've heard says...hydra-boost is a plus as to braking performance (given GM engine and or GM PS components). One of my major gripes about the 60 is the crap brake performance (my view) and the lack of the rear brakes staying in adjustment. I know you have what is essentially a one ton drive-line, recall that hydra-boost is a standard feature on GM 3/4 and 1 tons. Hope you have functional parking brake.

Brakes in general have become something I've started to look at options on (rear brakes)

If I were to do another engine swap tomorrow , it would be a 5.3 or 6.0 GM gas engine, matching GM auto trans, NP205 or other suitable transfer-case. Mechanical GM radiator fan clutch with matching GM fan clutch fan and custom fan shroud with OEM type 4 core brass type old school radiator or suitable other good radiator, leaving the engine stock or making minor improvements depending on year of engine , with GM components and certainly removing any variable displacement or other option that disables cylinders or whatever. Might swap cams, but would be looking for low end torque and none of the high end BS mods like you might do for Hot-Roding.

I like PS pumps from these guys...I will not run anything else unless I have a meltdown and had no other options Power Steering - Hydraulic - Off Road, Hot Rod, Circle Track Also like remote PS resivor from teh same people and run a dedicated PS cooler.

 

[cruisermatt]

In-tank pump for the win. I won't do external pumps on any swap

 

[dnp]

Late update, but if you've not decided on your fuel pump issue yet, I found this setup to be efficient and practical. This is what I used on my 2F/Sniper setup, so I can't tell you exactly how the setup would change on an LS, but it's the best of both worlds, in my opinion:

RobbMcPerformance - Powersurge

 

[cruisermatt]

Late update, but if you've not decided on your fuel pump issue yet, I found this setup to be efficient and practical. This is what I used on my 2F/Sniper setup, so I can't tell you exactly how the setup would change on an LS, but it's the best of both worlds, in my opinion:

RobbMcPerformance - Powersurge

complete waste of money, unnecessary complication, and he'd still have to figure out where to put a fuel pump to feed the surge tank.
In my opinion

 

[dnp]

Yeah, like I referenced above, I'm not sure how / if it'd work with an LS, but I CAN tell you it was an order-of-magnitude easier to use this on my 2F 60 than it was the other electric fuel pump options. I figure there's got to be a way to use it on a modern V8 or they wouldn't offer the different options.......

 

[cruisermatt]

If you have to put a fuel pump in to feed the surge tank you might as well just use it to feed the engine

 

[Bama4door]

Late update, but if you've not decided on your fuel pump issue yet, I found this setup to be efficient and practical. This is what I used on my 2F/Sniper setup, so I can't tell you exactly how the setup would change on an LS, but it's the best of both worlds, in my opinion:

RobbMcPerformance - Powersurge

I haven't decided on the fuel pump yet. I have seen a lot of people recently running these on EFI 2F projects with success.

I'm still leaning external pump (gasp @cruisermatt) because of cost and I don't have to cut a hole in my tank. I'm going to go with Aeroquip socketless hose and will need to order up some fittings as well. Hoping to do that this week. Tank turned out pretty good from the local radiator shop.

I also got in my motor mount brackets (after being sent the wrong ones from Ebay) along with motor mounts and hardware. Now I can actually test fit the engine to see how everything lines up.

Also need to order oil pan and LS3 exhaust manifolds.

 

[Bama4door]

Slowly been working on getting the engine somewhat “torn down” over the past week. Removed the stock wiring harness, exhaust manifolds and AC compressor (not running AC) and disconnected the 4l60e and stock flexplate.

Also bolted up the new motor mounts so I can mock up the motor to see how it fits.

I’ve decided I’m going to run a SM465 to take advantage of the 6.55:1 1st gear. The auto would be “easy” and have overdrive, but there’s something about a manual 5.3 that intrigues me.

Next steps:
-Bolt up GM “musclecar” oil pan
-Bolt up LS3 camaro exhaust manifolds
-Start on harness rework via lt1swap.com directions
-Order fuel lines, fittings, pump, regulator, etc
-Order flywheel, clutch, etc for sm465

 

[cruisermatt]

Try to get an iron bellhousing

 

[NCFJ]

Been reading the fuel supply situation. Do yourself a favor, take the time and expense and put your fuel pump in the tank and be done with it. You will be happy that you did.

 

[Bama4door]

I got the stock wiring harness stripped and de-pinned the AC, emissions and auto trans stuff via lt1swap.com. I'm sending in my ECU tomorrow to Brendan for him to tune it. This was a DBW truck and I'm converting to DBC, so I need to add the Idle Air Control and Throttle Sensor Position sensors to the computer. LT1swaps.com has all this info and is a huge help in all of this.

Slowly collecting parts for Red. I'm waiting on some M10x1.5 long bolts from McMaster Carr so I can bolt up the engine to my stand. Then I'll swap out the oil pan and some other PM stuff (rear main, water pump gasket, etc).

Ordered over the past 3 weeks:
-GM Musclecar oil pan
-LS3 Camaro exhaust manifolds & ARP bolts
- EVAP solenoid block-off
-NFW1050 Flywheel, LS2 pilot bearing, ARP flywheel & pressure plate bolts (need to order a clutch kit)
-Russell 6AN fuel line, fittings, pump, etc for fuel setup

I found out my engine is in fact an L59 (flex fuel version of an LM7). Seems a lot of the early Suburban's came with these. Almost all flex-fuel trucks came with a Return fuel system, but mine is a returnless (has a vacuum referenced FPR at the rail). This creates some issues with me wanting to run the common Corvette regulator most people run. This allows you to only have to run one fuel line from the fuel rail to the regulator.

My options are:

-Ditch the corvette regulator completely and just run 2 lines to the tank (most likely)
-Switch fuel rails to a return rail setup
-Plug return at fuel rail (seen some people do this and say its fine, others say not advised)

I also found out I have flex-fuel injectors that flow 36.6lbs/hr. These injectors usually came on 2004-2006 flex fuel trucks, but I guess I got lucky. This is a good upgrade compared to the ~25lb/hr stock LM7 injectors. This is good if I want to do any power adders down the road...

I've also tracked down a 4x4 SM465 here on Mud via @DangerNoodle. Just waiting to figure out shipping and price, so that is one less part to worry about. The only thing I'm missing now is the snout/adapter that bolts the Sm465 to the NP205.

 

[Bama4door]

I've also going back and forth on adding a cam and new valve springs while I've got the engine on the stand. There's not much point for low end torque, other than I like the chop and it would sound better. May hold off for now and add later down the road. I just want to continue getting the major necessary parts so this doesn't turn into a super long project...

The ultimate goal would be to get it running in time for our club's CCWS 3.0 run @ Windrock in January. That's coming up rather quickly, but you got to have goals! We'll see how it goes...

Big parts I still need to order:

-Radiator (probably going to order a Champion for an FJ60)
-Heater hoses, radiator hoses, fan shroud, Heater Valve
-Power Steering hoses
-Clutch Kit
-Air intake setup
-Temp Sensor and Oil pressure sensor adapters

To-Do:
-Install LS3 manifolds
-Install musclecar oil pan, windage tray, pickup tube
-Driveshafts shortened/lengthened (need to mock up engine/trans/tcase and measure)
-Trans crossmember
-Install fuel tank, plumb lines, install pump, figure out regulator/return, etc.
-Once I finish wiring, re-loom and tape up, install on motor
-Bolt up flywheel, pilot bearing, clutch kit
-Figure out slave setup (Toyota MC & Slave, customer adapter for slave on GM bellhousing)

 

[DangerNoodle]

I just sent money to secure that drivetrain from Georg. I should have a shipping quote by tomorrow, and hopefully moving on Friday. I'll have to split it and get it moving your way.

 

[Bama4door]

Red stretched her legs today. Got it turned around in the driveway so I can drop the LS in for a mock up.

 

[Tennessee80]

Red stretched her legs today. Got it turned around in the driveway so I can drop the LS in for a mock up.
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That’s a Wagon right there! Great progress, Cole!