NV4500 / Chevy 350 / Clutch issues - Can't shift into/out of gear

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jesus888

jesus888

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10 Year
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Feb 4, 2013
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Hey fellas, I'll first give the rundown on the specs and then I'll explain the problem...

Specs:
  • 1972 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
  • Chevy 350 (Crate motor from ~1999)
  • NV4500 (Early version with granny low)
  • Unknown Clutch (probably installed 58K miles ago when drivetrain was updated)
  • Clutch Master / Slave cylinder - FJ40-specific setup (and NEW)
Problem:
I'm driving in my neighborhood, and push the clutch in to shift from 2nd to 3rd gear, and realize that I cannot pull the shifter out of gear with the clutch pedal down. After quite a bit of force, I get the truck to pop out of 2nd gear and into neutral. (In an attempt to get home) I am able to put the truck into Reverse, after quite a bit of finagling and just reverse the 2 blocks home and into my driveway (because it's fighting me to get it out of gear).
​
More details and what i've done thus far:
  • When the truck is OFF, the shifter moves freely to all of the gears, as expected
  • It seems relatively clear that when the clutch pedal is depressed, the truck is NOT going into neutral, which is causing the issue.
  • First reviewed the full clutch cylinder / slave cylinder combination for leaks and found a couple of seals possibly letting small amounts of air into the system, SO I replace it all... Clutch Master cylinder, lines and slave cylinder are all NEW and Fully BLED (we must have pushed 20oz. of fluid as we bled, it's 100% bled)
  • Clutch fork appears to moving as expected.
  • We still have the same issue as above. Truck WILL NOT go into gear with clutch pedal depressed.
  • Any possible suggestions would be helpful.
 
So it's had that drivetrain with the NV4500 in it for 58k? I'm just trying to figure out if things went from "fine" to suddenly not working. It seems like it was an "all of a sudden" sort of thing instead of a slow progression. Any weird noises that may have led up to this?

If you are absolutely sure that the hydraulic master and slave cylinders are working correctly, I'd be looking at the clutch pivot arm and the throwout bearing next. Something is responsible for the clutch not engaging properly. It's possible, however remote that the clutch disc became damaged somehow and it may be stuck on the input splines of the transmission and not able to release. Possible but not likely.

Does that transmission have an inspection window? If so, you could have a friend work the clutch while you watch the engagement of the pilot bearing and so forth.
 
If everything is as you describe, my money is on the clutch (pressure plate). Do you know what type of clutch you have? Borg and Beck style or Diaphragm?
 
Rock40 said:
So it's had that drivetrain with the NV4500 in it for 58k? I'm just trying to figure out if things went from "fine" to suddenly not working. It seems like it was an "all of a sudden" sort of thing instead of a slow progression. Any weird noises that may have led up to this?

If you are absolutely sure that the hydraulic master and slave cylinders are working correctly, I'd be looking at the clutch pivot arm and the throwout bearing next. Something is responsible for the clutch not engaging properly. It's possible, however remote that the clutch disc became damaged somehow and it may be stuck on the input splines of the transmission and not able to release. Possible but not likely.

Does that transmission have an inspection window? If so, you could have a friend work the clutch while you watch the engagement of the pilot bearing and so forth.
Click to expand...

This was definitely an all-of-a-sudden type thing. There wasn't any signs of a clutch wearing out, slippage, or difficulty changing gears prior to it giving up.

I really believe the hydraulic system (master and slave) are @ 100%... all new and bled until we were blue in the face, and honestly, it's a pretty small, self-contained system, so I can feel pretty confident about it...

If an "inspection window" is the rubber grommet on the side, then I guess, yes, I have one? I'm not sure what I would be looking for OR how I was gonna put my head in a spot where I could see anything... especially into that space... there's not any room with the frame rails, etc.

Thank you for your help also!

IMG_6911.webp
 
reddingcruiser said:
If everything is as you describe, my money is on the clutch (pressure plate). Do you know what type of clutch you have? Borg and Beck style or Diaphragm?
Click to expand...

Truthfully, I do not know what type of clutch this is... the truck was built by BTB customs out of California back in the day... I could probably call them after the holiday and ask?

Thank you for your help also!
 
The truck in question (for inspiration)... we gotta get this sexy girl back UP AND MOVING...

FJ1.webp
 
Your pilot bearing could be seized to the input shaft. If the input shaft can't spin free of the engine it will not go into gear. Try rolling the truck, engine off in gear with the clutch depressed, it should roll freely.
 
whitey45 said:
Your pilot bearing could be seized to the input shaft. If the input shaft can't spin free of the engine it will not go into gear. Try rolling the truck, engine off in gear with the clutch depressed, it should roll freely.
Click to expand...

From what I've read about Pilot bearings failing, there is noise associated with that right? No noise here... (just a thought/prayer because I don't wanna pull the tranny)
 
Shut the truck off, put it in 4th gear (1:1). Push in the clutch and try to start it. Does the truck try to lunge forward? Sounds like the pilot bearing may be seizing up if that is what happens because it happened all of a sudden.
 
whitey45 said:
Not necessarily, chances are you are going to need to remove the trans to further investigate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. Dammit.
 
cruiserfj45 said:
Shut the truck off, put it in 4th gear (1:1). Push in the clutch and try to start it. Does the truck try to lunge forward? Sounds like the pilot bearing may be seizing up if that is what happens because it happened all of a sudden.
Click to expand...

I will check that in a bit... can you explain how that works? If I leave it in gear, and push the clutch in and turn the key, it'll lurch forward... I'm pretty sure about that...

I will say that when I am trying to push the shifter into gear (with clutch pedal pushed in OR not) the truck kind of slowly moves forward... not far, but it moves...
 
B4 taking the trans out I'd do what whitey45 mentioned, also check the clutch adjustment. If there's too much freeplay in the rod then shifting could be a problem. Was the new slave cylinder the same length and internal diameter?
 
You are verifying that the clutch is stuck, sometimes that will free it up if its the pilot bearing. When you are trying to push the shiftier into gear you are transmitting some power through the scychros. Does the pedal feel normal? Based on your description it is most likely the pilot bearing or clutch diaphragm.
 
pb4ugo said:
B4 taking the trans out I'd do what whitey45 mentioned, also check the clutch adjustment. If there's too much freeplay in the rod then shifting could be a problem. Was the new slave cylinder the same length and internal diameter?
Click to expand...

New slave was exactly the same length because we actually re-used the original rod with the new slave to keep it the same length. The new one that came with the slave was 2" too long... the one that was on the truck (and that worked 100% for last 6k miles) has clearly been shortened at some point, I imagine, when it was installed.

I'll try what White45 mentioned once all these family vehicles move out on Friday...
 
whitey45 said:
Clutch disc is definately not disengaging, presure plate or pilot bearing failure If your getting full travel with the clutch fork.
Click to expand...

Appear to be getting full travel with the clutch fork. Not sure how to make sure of that...
 
cruiserfj45 said:
You are verifying that the clutch is stuck, sometimes that will free it up if its the pilot bearing. When you are trying to push the shiftier into gear you are transmitting some power through the scychros. Does the pedal feel normal? Based on your description it is most likely the pilot bearing or clutch diaphragm.
Click to expand...

I would say the pedal feels pretty normal... it def tightened up as we bled it and reached a point afterwhich it didn't get any better and from what I recollect, it was very similar to how it was when it was working.

So if it's the pilot bearing OR the diaphragm, don't both of those require me to remove the tranny and inspect/change out the clutch and associate parts?
 
Yes, if you believe the hydraulic components are functioning correctly then the next step will be pulling the trans to investigate further. Something (throwout bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate or pilot bearing) is not functioning as it should. It's bad news time and labor wise but will likely be pretty cheap to fix if you do the work yourself.
 
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