M12000 Winch - What Fuse to use?

woytovich

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I wear a seat belt, I have never NEEDED the seat belt and I hope I never do... but I will continue to wear one.

I have run a winch without a fuse, wired directly to the battery for over 10 years - I have been lucky to have not had any problems. I have a 500a fuse here that is planned for my M12000 winch circuit before this wheeling season starts for me. I have my solenoid box under the hood to keep it out of sight to dissuade those pesky punk kids.
 

woytovich

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I have now installed a 500a fuse on the power line to my winch solenoid. I have only had the opportunity to use the winch for a very short pull (with only a 10ft of rope spooled out - the max amp draw circumstance) so I can't comment on any problems I might have with the fuse and spikes in amp draw at start-up or under long, heavy pulls.
 
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Could you post a pic of the fuse you used? I just wired two winches, w/o a fuse, but I have a super heavy duty isolator switch
between the battery and winches now. Basically, I didn't install fuse, to save the money at the time, I did however leave a space
for adding it in later. Both winches are brand new, and modern contactors, so I have some confidence in them.
 
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Holy Crap! The reason I didn't get it installed is the BlueSea? fuse was $50 alone. I guess I better source that out
while I'm in San Antonio. Cdn prices tend to be high.
 

Mudder

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Is there something wrong with warns quick connect? You could just unhook the winch when you aren't using it and before you go into the mountains re hook it up and then you wouldn't have to worry. Or is there something I'm missing?
 

woytovich

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The risk that I am trying to mitigate is a catastrophic failure while the winch is "live". A front end accident (on the road or in the woods) that shorts the hot wire to ground.... or some failure in the winch motor or solenoids during use.

Disconnecting the winch when not in use certainly removes the danger when not in use but as soon as it is all hooked up you are back to zero protection - in my mind, when you need it the most.

Belt & suspenders....
 
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So say of you use the PAC-500 relay as mentioned before..... Do you power it from a keyed hot and fused source?
 
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So say of you use the PAC-500 relay as mentioned before..... Do you power it from a keyed hot and fused source?

I have mine mounted under the hood just a few inches from the battery.



The main power lead connects directly to the battery and the remote activation wire is triggered by an aircraft toggle switch mounted under the dash that's fed by an ignition source, so.....

1) My Ignition Key needs to be inserted and turned to the run position.

2) Once the ignition is turned on, I can flip toggle switch under the dash to activate the the main solenoid.




3) Once the main solenoid is activated, power is then fed to the main power cable (pos+) on the winch solenoid pack. At this point, the winch solenoid pack sees full battery power, but is still not functional because the circuit between the remote switching plug is still open (that's where the key switches come in)

4) A plastic key needs to be inserted into one of the bumper mounted key switches to feed power to the winch solenoid pack trigger wires (this is a low current signal, probably less than 1amp)






5) Only then will I be able to either:
a) Plug in my hand controller into the bumper mounted plug
b) Use my interior winch controls (OEM seat heater switches)





If any of the steps are skipped, the winches simply will not work.
 
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why the second switch mounted on the bumper? seems redundant.......

so no fuse, but wire to keyed hot and use "dead man" switch inline between relay and keyed hot?
 
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why the second switch mounted on the bumper? seems redundant.......
Yes, it may be redundant, but there are reasons for having the extra key switches mounted on the bumper:

1) Since each winch requires a key to operate, I won't have to worry about little hands (or big hands for that matter) roaming inside the cab.
Without the key switch to kill the circuit, anyone would be able to trigger the winch using the interior controls providing I left my rig running (which I usually do while I'm out on the road doing field work)

2) The key switches kill power going to the remote socket.
This will prevent any punk kids with paper clips from tampering with what would otherwise be a an exposed 12 volt source.

3) I can use the key switch on the bumper to start/stop the winch while holding tension on the cable when reeling it in without having to dig out my hand remote (which I rarely ever use)



so no fuse, but wire to keyed hot and use "dead man" switch inline between relay and keyed hot?
Correct, there's no fuse between the main solenoid and the battery.

With just a few inches separating the two, there's very little chance of having a short.

The trigger circuit (toggle switch) is fused through the fuse panel where I found my ignition source.
 
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DID the search button and found a few threads on fusing a winch, not really anything was talked about other than a manual switch..


Here in lies the problem, I have seen a winch fail and ground itself, nearly melted the post off the battery by the time he got it off...

As rare as this is it did happen.

I have searched the net and found some heavey duty fuse but have yet to see one be used?

Edit http://www.bluesea.com/products/5137

Rob:beer:
A little late to the game, but we see those fuses used in quite a few aircraft. They are good to go in my opinion.
 
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Reviving an old thread...I have been meaning to add a switch to my m12000 to shut the power off when not in use. Looking at the Blue Sea switches and trying to figure out the right one. Looking at Warn's site it looks like the M12000 pulls 440 amps. Looking at both the Blue Sea e series and the heavy duty series which is rated for 350 continuos or 600 intermittent amps. The heavy duty is 600 continuous and 900 intermittent. Will I be good with the e series with 600 amps for 5 minutes?
 

woytovich

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I don't think I have ever needed to winch without a significant break for more than a minute or so... especially with the winch pulling at close to full amp draw - but that is my personal experience.

But remember, the goal FOR ME with adding a fuse is to help to avoid a catastrophic failure: through a seized up solenoid or a crushed power lead from the battery to the winch. A fuse is cheap insurance... add a switch AND a fuse!
 
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I don't think I have ever needed to winch without a significant break for more than a minute or so... especially with the winch pulling at close to full amp draw - but that is my personal experience.

But remember, the goal FOR ME with adding a fuse is to help to avoid a catastrophic failure: through a seized up solenoid or a crushed power lead from the battery to the winch. A fuse is cheap insurance... add a switch AND a fuse!
that is true. For my dual battery system I fused it using Blue Safety holders here which are fully enclosed and sealed... MEGA® / AMG® Safety Fuse Block - Blue Sea Systems

Looking at fuses that are greater than the 440 amp max draw none of them are sealed. Is there a risk with these under the hood where they could be submerged? ANL Fuse Block with Insulating Cover - 35 to 750A - Blue Sea Systems
With the ANL type I can install a 500 amp fuse.
 

woytovich

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If things get submerged MANY things carrying current will be underwater. I don't think an ANL fuse would be any worse off than anything else...
 
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So I have a miserable life because I happen to take my winch safety seriously?

I'm not playing games here...

The OP asked about fusing his winch and with very good reason.

Just because YOU haven't an issue with a runaway winch, doesn't mean it can't or won't happen.

We've had several Warn solenoids freeze up on our fleet tow trucks and was lucky enough to have a main safety shut off to prevent damage.

After one of our older push trucks nearly went up in flames when the winch power wire got pinched, we installed Anderson connectors on every vehicle with a winch and/or bumper mounted jumper lead connector that didn't already have solenoid.

Running a live cable to a winch mounted in a high impact zone is just an unnecessary risk IMHO, but you can keep doing whatever you feel works for you :meh:

Your battery is in a high impact zone and can catch fire in a crash. Most Warn winches have 2 or more solenoids for that reason(stuck solenoid). You do need to inspect for stuck solenoids in your maintenance routine so you don't have the fire hazard. If you are running a single solenoid you are asking for a runaway winch. I prefer the cutoff connection or disconnect method. I also don't like a live remote switch either.
 

hj 60

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I removed the original solenoid because of to many bad stories, replaced with albright contactor:
SKU: DC88-556PL24V
24V Extra duty solenoid for winch upgrades:
Albright Contactor - Extra Duty 24V

And added two simple cheap red marine switches: one under the hood, unmolested I hope.
And one just next to the winch in case my arm gets sucked in and bystanders just make selfies.
If I need the winch I need to open the hood but that might help thinking it over as I try to get stuck but when it happens I freak out :love:

The heat cut off switches at more than 200 degrees Celsius and a fuse must handle 250 Amp and more in peak: almost impossible to fuse that thing properly I think.

pdf: WARN_30_page_service_manual_repair_of_mil_9000-12000.pdf

WARN_6_page_winch_manual.pdf

WARN_basic_guide_to_winching.pdf

12V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS
Line Pull
Lbs.(Kgs.) Line Speed
FT./min(M/min.) Motor
Current Pull by layer
layer/Lbs(Kgs.)
0 30(9.14) 67 amps 1/12000(5443)
2000(910) 14(4.27) 140 amps 2/11120(5044)
4000(1810) 8.62(2.63) 210 amps 3/10340(4690)
6000(2720) 6.92(2.11) 250 amps 4/9770(4432)
8000(3630) 5.80(1.77) 320 amps 5/9250(4196)
10000(4540) 4.39(1.34) 370 amps
12000(5440) 3.86(1.18) 440 amps

24V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS
Line Pull
Lbs.(Kgs.) Line Speed
FT./min(M/min.) Motor
Current Pull by layer
layer/Lbs(Kgs.)
0 31.94(9.57) 24 amps 1/12000(5443)
2000(910) 11.7(3.57) 105 amps 2/11120(5044)
4000(1810) 9.5(2.90) 129 amps 3/10340(4690)
6000(2720) 8.5(2.59) 152 amps 4/9770(4432)
8000(3630) 7.5(2.29) 175 amps 5/9250(4196)
10000(4540) 6.5(1.98) 198 amps
12000(5440) 6.0(1.83) 221 amps

Above performance specs are based on first layer of drum
 
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