Fuel Injected FJ40 Issues

[swordmetal]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here and I'm looking for some advice. I bought my FJ40 pretty built up already and now I'm regreting it since I don't know much about what is in it. I know that has a Chev 350 engine, fuel injected, fuel cell under pass. seat. A couple months ago it died on me. I knew it needed a fuel pump so I replaced it with one I had, not knowing if it was new or used. It ran pretty well for about 150 miles, then died again. This time I ordered a new high pressure in-line fuel pump. Same thing, it ran fine for 50-100 miles then died. This time it would fire up after about 5 minutes (after the engine had cooled?) and would run for a few minutes but die again. I did some research and thought I might be dealing with vapor lock as some of the fuel lines were warm to the touch. I insulated all of the exposed fuel lines, it fired right up and ran for about 100 miles again until it died. Now it will start sometimes but it won't stay running.
I know there are a million variables with the vague discription of the equipment I have given, but does anyone have any ideas? I am anxious to take advantage of the nice weather and get up to the mountains!! Thanks in advance!
Dan

 

[trona]

cavitation burning up pump

Been down this road myself. more than likely the fuel cell is causing the pump to work to draw fuel from the intake side of the pump.
This problem is exaggerated when the fuel gets hot. This is why most efi systems use an in tank pump. The pump is cooled by the gas in the tank and there is very little lift needed on the intake side.
You have two options replace the tank with one that will allow a internal pump. the second option is the on that I just took. You can buy or build a surge tank. There are a view on the market but I decided to build my own. My tank allowed me to put an efi pump in the surge tank. The tank consists of four inlets Low pressure in from a electric carburetor type fuel pump that keeps the surge tank filled with gas. This pump is low pressure but can keep up with the gallons per hour of the efi pump. The second connection is a low pressure return to your existing tank this allows your low preasure pump to circulate exsess fuel back to the main tank.
The third and forth connections are you high pressure and reture to the motor. An added feature to this setup is you run an auxillery tank you only need one efi pump.
Hope this helps
Dave

 

[lone gunman]

first off what type of injection do you have ? TBI or TPI or Holley or ?
i am not sure if the pump is the problem, is the fuel cell vented ? a surge tank is a good idea (i run one) but there are several types some have pumps in them some don't (see pic's) some systems run two pumps low pressure and high pressure. TBI uses just low pressure pump let us know what system you are running and we can go from there.

oh and this site has info on TPI and TBI New Page 3

 

[Cruisertime]

Just an off question....Are you fully positive that your oiling system is performing to spec?

 

[swordmetal]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm not sure what type of fuel injection I am running, I have no experience in this area. Sometime in the next couple days, I'll post some pictures of the fuel system. As far as the oiling system, everything should be fine, the engine was new as of about a year ago, probably around 2000 miles on it now. Thanks again guys!

 

[lone gunman]

check out the link i posted ( New Page 3 ) it might help you to figure out what you have. if its not TPI or TBI or maybe vortec MPFI its after market.

 

[swordmetal]

Ok guys,
Here are a few pictures of the fuel equipment, not sure if they'll help or not. I found out it is Holley fuel injection. Thanks again for the help!
Today she fired right up and idled fine for about ten minutes. I gave it some gas, as if I was driving it and there were no problems, I'm confused.

 

[trona]

It looks like the filter is on the intake side fo the pump if thats the case put it on the output side efi pumps are not designed to draw fuel though a filter.
Dave

 

[BrianSanDiego]

Do you have a pic of the throttle body looking down at it with the air filter off, and of the computer for it? I have a Holley 2D injection and a little bit of experience fixing it
Brian.


OK, I looked around a little bit. Is this the Throttle body you have? Its a Holley 2D, and looks similar to your photo.
http://holley.com/data/products/pictures/large502-20S.jpg

And if that is yours, the entire installation manual is available for download from this page. It has the tuning information you'll need and also some troubleshooting info.
http://holley.com/502-20S.asp

 

[lone gunman]

well i don't know squat about Holley's system. you might check there site and see if they have a trouble shooting guide. other then that i am out, sorry i couldn't help!

 

[swordmetal]

Thanks for all the help everyone, I really appreciate it! Brian, I'll take the air filter off and take a picture of the throttle body and the computer. Thanks again!

 

[swordmetal]

Brian,
Here are a couple pictures of the throttle body and the computer. Thanks for the help!

 

[swordmetal]

Here is one more

 

[BrianSanDiego]

Hey Dan, you are welcome.

Well, good news and bad news. Good news is....

You don't have a Holley 2D system!!! They suck. I have one and it has been a constant battle over the last year to tune it and keep it running correctly. It looks like you have a Howell system (from the yellow sticker on the computer) and I believe Howell uses a Holley TBI unit, hence the Holley label on the TBI if there is one.

Howell uses a couple more sensors than the 2D TBI (MAP and O2 sensors) which let it provide closed loop operation with much more precise fuel metering. I think also your computer might "learn" over time, and provide an even more precise fuel mixture.

You should be very glad you don't have a Holley 2D. I was thinking of a way to suggest you either upgrade to a Howell or better Holley system, or even go back to a carburetor!


Bad news,
I don't know much about Howell TBI.

What I would suggest next time it stops running:
Take off the air filter and see if it is spraying gas from the injectors down the bores of the Throttle Body when you crank the motor. It should. If it is spraying fuel and not running it is probably an ignition problem that isn't related to your TBI. Although it is possible your ignition is tied into your TBI computer, but I don't know.

If it is not spraying gas I would try to see if it was a fuel supply problem or an injector/computer/wiring problem. I would do that by pulling the fuel line off the TBI and quicly turning the key to run, without starting it. You will need to be VERY careful doing this or you will end up shooting lots of gas everywhere! Either point the fuel line into a cup, or rag or something so you don't end up burning your rig to the ground, and keep a fire extinguisher handy.

Once you see if you're getting a good supply of gas to the Throttle Body, you will have a much better idea of where to start looking for the problem.


Also, I'd call Howell tech support, read them the model number from the back of the computer, and ask them which installation manual to order or download. You will need that if you need to diagnose a sensor, computer, or wiring problem, or to even adjust the system.


Howell Engine Developments Inc. - TBI UNIT: 670 CFM Holley 2-bbl with 80lb/hr Injector


First step though, is to look down the bore of the Throttle Body when it won't start and see if you are getting gas.



B.

edit:
If anyone can think of a better way than shooting gas all over, to test for fuel to the Throttle Body, please pipe in!!!

 

[swordmetal]

Wow, thanks for the good information! That gives me a good starting point. I'll let you know what I find out once I dig into it (it'll be a couple weeks, I'm getting married on Saturday so the fj is going on the back burner for a bit). Thanks again!

 

[trona]

Looks like a holley 650 cfm on a gm manifold I had this setup on my 383 ht
it worked of with chip that howell burned for me. I would consider buying a cheap full presure guage that tee into the high pressure line. you should be running around 15 to 16 lbs for a 350 chevy.
I the motor dies again that guage can help you diagnose pump problems.
Also check that fuel fillter placement it must be on the output of the pump!! or you will starve the pump and kill it.

 

[BrianSanDiego]

You're welcome.
Congratulations on getting hitched!
B.

 

[swordmetal]

Ok guys, I'm back trying to get the FJ running again. I discovered my battery was bad so I replaced that.
Trona, you were right, the fuel filter was on the input side of the pump so that's fixed now.
Brian, I am getting fuel from the injectors so it is probably an ignition problem.
Does anyone have any idea where to start? Since it fires right up and runs for a while, then sputters and dies, could it be a timing problem? Thanks!

 

[cruiserbrett]

I havent read through all the posts, but have you tried it without the gas cap on? or with a known venting style cap?

If the PO plugged off the evap system, and left the stock non vented cap, you might be running into an issue related to a lack of air into the tank to replace the used fuel. this creates a vacuum and it consequently slowly builds up until the pump cant suck enough fuel against the vacuum to keep the engine running...

-Brett

 

[swordmetal]

Brett-
I don't have a gas cap on there at all