Air bags with lift?

[lx450landcruiser]

ok so if i wanted to run air bags with a 2.5 lift will this work? wouldnt the air bags from the company be made to fit stock springs? wouldnt that also mean that if i put air bags in the 2.5 springs they would expand with out reaching the top and bottom of the coil? also does any one know anyhing about running front air bags and rear air bags on seperate switches?


thanks mike

 

[IdahoDoug]

Certainly worth a call to the tech line at AirLift (517 area code I believe), but these are not designed to LIFT the vehicle, but to prevent the coils from sagging under heavy load. They do this by squeezing themselves in between the coils more than expanding in length to push against the axle and body as you're supposing. So, I'd think they would still work, but call the company(s). I use AirLifts with good success on my stockers.

DougM

 

[scottm]

Measure the diameter and height of the space inside the coil without the bumpstop. I'm sure Airlift and others would be happy to supply the proper size bags. You would want to run separate front and rear pressures, Doug and I run separate left and right. I think airbags will limit your maximum articulation unless you somehow squish or suck them flat before wheeling.

 

[SeanAndHis80]

[quote author=turbocruiser link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg109489#msg109489 date=1077630736]
Right, which is why I think the HD OME lift is the way to go; lots of load carrying ability, no worry with articulation, no worry with matching custom bags. Just some thoughts to ponder.
[/quote]

That would be fine if the load you carry is going to be relatively the same every time. In my case the load that I need the coil airbags for will be used only a dozen times a year and puts 280lbs on the hitch.

Lift is no substitute for airbags if your load will drastically vary.

 

[ppc]

I have a similar tongue weight and find the OME 860's in the rear to be ideal. Much better stability and ride than with OEM and the Airlift bags. Without the trailer or any load in the back it still rides good and doesn't have as much of the side to side sway. With the Airlift bags they recommend that you always keep them filled with at least 5 PSI so that don't get pinched or chafed. That causes more of a bounce or harshness to the ride than the stiffer springs. The highest pressure I set them at and the best ride while towing was at 15 PSI. Small amounts of pressure make big changes.

 

[landtoy80]

Can you put the bag in the rear only?
About how much $$$ are they?

 

[ppc]

Yes, most people just use them in the rear. For just the two bags, no compressor the kits should be had for $80-$100. IMHO money is better spent on OME springs.

 

[Augie]

I have taller rear air bags on my 99. The way I have it set up actually I have better articulation, improved load carrying capability, lift and better stability. This is due to one small adition I have on my set up. I install a smal ball valve that could isolate or equialize the pressure in the bag. I always close the valve for on road use but open the valve for off road use.

I use P/N 60755 which are about 2" taller than what is recommended for stock spring. The install guide are not that good since the bag are not designed for LC but pretty much the same principle applies. The biggest problem is driling a 3/4" diameter hole in the center of the lower spring mount. The OEM hole are not exactly centered so they have the tendency to always cut the airline. I took me 3 tries to get it right. A step drill are highly recommended.

Other method to gain lift using airbag is to use some spacer over stock height airbag.

I got mine from Summit Racing. I think I paid $63 plus $8 S&H.

This is the second vehicle I have airbag setup. Idahodoug recommend the first bag on my old truck and I been very satisfied with it so far. This are not for everyone though. I agree a stiffer spring are less hassle but if you don't load your truck it could be a bit too firm while with airbag you just adjust your pressure.

 

[landtoy80]

I like the air bag idea for the rear as I am not ready for the OME yet.
I don't like it when I load up the rear, the headlights are hard to see on the road and on comming cars flash me.

 

[IdahoDoug]

"Right, which is why I think the HD OME lift is the way to go; lots of load carrying ability, no worry with articulation, no worry with matching custom bags." 

Turbo: Actually if you're carrying loads there's no contest - the airbags clearly win. No steel spring is going to be so stiff that putting a heavy load like 500lbs on them will not make the rear sag and the headlamps hunt squirrels. If it doesn't move with significant added weight, then by definition it's not a spring. With my air springs however, I can achieve exactly that - zero sag. I use a stick kept in the truck to exactly measure the ride height of the rear, and unladen it's X. When I adjust the air springs properly and drop 650lbs of boat trailer tongue weight on the ball, it settles right at X and I can drive all night with nary a headlight flash and excellent light patterns just like when we're unladen. Of course the gas gauge sags a bit.....

As for articulation, I ignore the factory recommendation and wheel with zero pressure and get full compression with no air bag damage. These bags have over 100,000 miles on them now.

Nothing against OME, in fact I think they're the finest spring/shock kits out there.

DougM

 

[scottm]

[quote author=Augie link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg109838#msg109838 date=1077671990]I install a smal ball valve that could isolate or equialize the pressure in the bag. I always close the valve for on road use but open the valve for off road use.[/quote]
Another "why didn't I think of that?" When you open the valve the airbag easily compresses flat, solving what I theorized was the only drawback to airbags. There could be a fair amount of air movement through the open valve, do you snorkel it to keep from sucking in water?

I have two '97s on stock springs. Neither my wife nor I notice mine being any stiffer with airbags at low pressure. We do notice mine rides great with seven passengers and a ton of luggage in the roof carrier on long trips. Hers would wallow without the airbags. And forget heavy towing with hers, the airbags make an amazing difference. I used to tow daily for work.

 

[boydmick]

What effect would the air bags have on braking performance? If the truck sits level, the proportioning valve thinks its empty and sends less pressure to the rear - no?

Ideally you could fab something to adjust the proportioning valve as the pressure in the bag rises any ideas?

 

[landtoy80]

[quote author=boydmick link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg110241#msg110241 date=1077734253]
What effect would the air bags have on braking performance? If the truck sits level, the proportioning valve thinks its empty and sends less pressure to the rear - no?

Ideally you could fab something to adjust the proportioning valve as the pressure in the bag rises any ideas?
[/quote]

Thats a good ???
On my last trip we had the 80 loaded to the top. Got to Slee and put the sliders on the top with all the other stuff. The OEM roof rack was way over loaded.
Had I had the air bags in the back or on all four springs, how would that affect braking in the steep mountian roads?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Turbo,

Airlift. I've had 3 vehicles with them, and helped install 3 others - great product and low price.

Boyd/Kurt,

That's an issue for sure. I've adjusted my proportioning valve for more rear pressure, but would be great to have a quick adjustment for it. When I hit the brakes hard, the rear squats despite the airbags so I think I get more rear braking. I've experimented a bit.

DougM

 

[Augie]

[quote author=Scott M. link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg110084#msg110084 date=1077709545]
Another "why didn't I think of that?" When you open the valve the airbag easily compresses flat, solving what I theorized was the only drawback to airbags. There could be a fair amount of air movement through the open valve, do you snorkel it to keep from sucking in water?
[/quote]

My valve are installed in between the 2 bags. It just equalize the pressure when one need to go up and the other side need to go down. No snorkel needed since they are basically a closed system.

 

[scottm]

[quote author=Augie link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg110464#msg110464 date=1077754604]
My valve are installed in between the 2 bags. It just equalize the pressure when one need to go up and the other side need to go down. No snorkel needed since they are basically a closed system.
[/quote]
I had thought of taking the valves out of the valve stem fillers to allow full compression, hadn't tried it yet. Since my valves are mounted below the trailer hitch they'd probably be removed to wheel anyway.

 

[scottm]

[quote author=boydmick link=board=2;threadid=11952;start=msg110241#msg110241 date=1077734253]
What effect would the air bags have on braking performance?[/quote]

I used to tow daily a 3000+ lb trailer, kept 15 to 20psi in each airbag. I got the rear tires to lock up briefly in a couple panic stops on dry pavement. I'm not sure why, but braking balance was very good with that setup.