2H alternator/vaccum pump questions.

[Justcruzin]

Hello all.

Just pulled the alternator from my rig and noticed a small red colored wire was broken off from corrosion. As you can see on the pic, it's coming out of a capacitor like tiny canistor and goes straight to ground via the alt. casing. I was wondering what would be the purpose of that canister/wire? Is it something the alt. absolutely needs to function properly? If so, anyone know where I could source a new one??


Also, please excuze my ignorance but I new the vaccum created by the vaccum pump was used to assist braking (power brakes) but can someone explain to me why the piping from the vaccum pump goes through the sedimenter/water separator before it goes back up to the brake booster???


Thanks!

Marc.

 

[roalco]

I would think the capacitor is there to reduce interference (noise) on your radio. There is one fitted on my 3B alternator. Any alternator shop should be able to supply one.
No idea on the vacuum plumbing other than on my 3B 60series the vacuum, line and the fuel lines both travel parrellel on the firewall behind the engine, an area fo poor visiblity, and as they are the same size and material it may be possible to confuse them??

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Hello all.

Just pulled the alternator from my rig and noticed a small red colored wire was broken off from corrosion. As you can see on the pic, it's coming out of a capacitor like tiny canistor and goes straight to ground via the alt. casing. I was wondering what would be the purpose of that canister/wire? Is it something the alt. absolutely needs to function properly? If so, anyone know where I could source a new one??


Also, please excuze my ignorance but I new the vaccum created by the vaccum pump was used to assist braking (power brakes) but can someone explain to me why the piping from the vaccum pump goes through the sedimenter/water separator before it goes back up to the brake booster???


Thanks!

Marc.

capacitor question has been answered correctly.

The vacuum line should absolutely NOT go through the water separator. I actually doubt it does. Usually it goes to the vacuum canister. The goal is that you have vacuum assist for a little while even when the engine has been switched off.
check again-the water sep on a HJ60 is on the passenger side inside frame rail, below the rear door. it has a line coming in from the tank and one going out to the fuel pump. Thge vacuum canister is mounted in the engine compartment on the driver's side fender, with a line coming in from the alt/vac pump and one or 2 lines going out to brake booster and clutch booster (if you have one). Also the vac canister is much bigger than the stock water sep.
J

 

[Justcruzin]

I would think the capacitor is there to reduce interference (noise) on your radio. There is one fitted on my 3B alternator. Any alternator shop should be able to supply one.
No idea on the vacuum plumbing other than on my 3B 60series the vacuum, line and the fuel lines both travel parrellel on the firewall behind the engine, an area fo poor visiblity, and as they are the same size and material it may be possible to confuse them??

Your answer about the capacitor makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I just never happened to see that actual set-up. Like I said, I'm an ignorant...

And your comment on me confusing the vac. lines with the fuel lines took me half way to the answer. It is not the vac. and fuel lines I was was confusing but rather the sedimenter and the vaccum canister exactly as J pointed out. I had always thought that bigger canister was the sedimenter and since it has a drain plug to the bottom of it, it kinda made sense... But when you mentionned the fuel lines I double checked and found the sedimenter to be a much smaller bottle type can.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

MJ

 

[Justcruzin]

capacitor question has been answered correctly.

The vacuum line should absolutely NOT go through the water separator. I actually doubt it does. Usually it goes to the vacuum canister. The goal is that you have vacuum assist for a little while even when the engine has been switched off.
check again-the water sep on a HJ60 is on the passenger side inside frame rail, below the rear door. it has a line coming in from the tank and one going out to the fuel pump. Thge vacuum canister is mounted in the engine compartment on the driver's side fender, with a line coming in from the alt/vac pump and one or 2 lines going out to brake booster and clutch booster (if you have one). Also the vac canister is much bigger than the stock water sep.
J

Well J, you anwered my next question even before I had time to ask. Now that I knew the vac. lines were NOT going to the sedimenter, what was that other tank they were going to?? Basically a vaccum reservoir to allow some braking assistance should the engine die on you.

My truck is actually an HJ 47 and both canisters are located next to each other, outside the frame rail, drivers side (RHD), roughly under the drivers seat. As an excuse, I'll say that the way the sedimenter is positionned, you can't see the fuel lines going to it... Bad excuse, I know. Did I mention I was an ignorant? :whoops:

Thanks again!

MJ

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Your answer about the capacitor makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I just never happened to see that actual set-up. Like I said, I'm an ignorant...

And your comment on me confusing the vac. lines with the fuel lines took me half way to the answer. It is not the vac. and fuel lines I was was confusing but rather the sedimenter and the vaccum canister exactly as J pointed out. I had always thought that bigger canister was the sedimenter and since it has a drain plug to the bottom of it, it kinda made sense... But when you mentionned the fuel lines I double checked and found the sedimenter to be a much smaller bottle type can.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

MJ

perfect, problem solved.

If you have never done so, it might pay off to actually pull the water sedimenter and open it up. Mine had tons of gunk in it, which I would never have noticed by simply opening the bleed valve. so much gunk that it started to block fuel flow.
it is a bit messy, as you have to pull the fuel lines off, but you can connect them with a think tube to each other and usually don't even have to bleed the system afterwards.
cheers,
J

 

[Justcruzin]

perfect, problem solved.

If you have never done so, it might pay off to actually pull the water sedimenter and open it up. Mine had tons of gunk in it, which I would never have noticed by simply opening the bleed valve. so much gunk that it started to block fuel flow.
it is a bit messy, as you have to pull the fuel lines off, but you can connect them with a think tube to each other and usually don't even have to bleed the system afterwards.
cheers,
J

Thanks for the info. I will definitely do that, at some point.
How does it open? I never really looked at it that closely, of course I only discovered it yesterday...

MJ

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely do that, at some point.
How does it open? I never really looked at it that closely, of course I only discovered it yesterday...

MJ

the top that holds the sensor screws off.
cheers,
jan

 

[Justcruzin]

the top that holds the sensor screws off.
cheers,
jan

Hey, that sounds easy... Even for me!

While we're at it can someone educate me on the best/normal way to drain the water/**** out of the OEM sedimenter? I realizw you just loosen the plug at the bottom but, should the engine be idling? Or absolutely not?

Below is the system I've got, it's pretty elaborate, I think:

Fuel come out of the OEM sedimenter and goes through the first filter/separator. It then goes in and out of the primer pump and then back up through the second filter and then goes into the main injection pump.

Any clue on how I'm suppose to drain these? There's a tiny plastic valve at the bottom but when I loosen it up I see bubbles of air getting into the filter and not one drop of water or fuel coming out... That would be with engine NOT running. Same question as above, should I run the engine while doing it?

TKS

MJ

 

[blis]

best way to is remove the sedimenter totally and blast it open with pressurised air, then hook it back and bleed it and youre good to go for a long while...

 

[Justcruzin]

COOL

OK cool. What about the other 2 filters? Any idea?

MJ

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

OK cool. What about the other 2 filters? Any idea?

MJ

That's an elaborate setup. my guess is that fuel gets sucked back into the tank when you open the plastic valve, hence the air bubbles going in. maybe try to open the top and the bottom, so it can drain. at the stock system you also need to open the top screw (the 10mm on the top side) and the bottom screw for it to work well.
IMO your system is total overkill. does it still have the stock fuel filter as well? I would not be surprised if your injection pump has to work too hard with all the filters. I'd probably ditch both of them, if the stock one is still there.
cheers,
J

 

[roalco]

Looks like the first one is sucking air in because it is mounted on the suction side of the transfer pump and way too high (above the level of fuel in the tank), so it is operating at all times under a vacuum, even at rest (unlike the stock separator on the frame rail), with no way to ever properly bleed it of all air. If the second one looks like the first (can't see in the pic), with a plastic bowl, it also is designed to operate with a positive head of fuel behind it, on the suction side of a pump. Filters on the discharge of the pump should have an air bleed at the top.
One more tidbit, those plastic fuel bowls will melt quickly in a fire, dumping more fuel on it.... They are normally used well away from an engine space or heat source.

 

[100 TD]

One more tidbit, those plastic fuel bowls will melt quickly in a fire, dumping more fuel on it.... They are normally used well away from an engine space or heat source.

I must be getting old...........I have only seen these with heavy glass bowls.
Looks like you should probably change both filters as well.

 

[Justcruzin]

That's an elaborate setup. my guess is that fuel gets sucked back into the tank when you open the plastic valve, hence the air bubbles going in. maybe try to open the top and the bottom, so it can drain. at the stock system you also need to open the top screw (the 10mm on the top side) and the bottom screw for it to work well.
IMO your system is total overkill. does it still have the stock fuel filter as well? I would not be surprised if your injection pump has to work too hard with all the filters. I'd probably ditch both of them, if the stock one is still there.
cheers,
J

Elaborate is right! I think you might be right about the fuel going back down into the tank. I'll try opening the top also and see what happens. BTW those 2 filters replace the stocker and, to this point, engine's been running real nice and smooth so I'd rather keep that set-up and just try to find out how you're supposed to drain/clean them. Note that the car came from who knows where in Australia so maybe they had really...really bad fuel out there... Speaking of bad fuel, I intend to drive it down through central and south-America, where you can never have too many fuel filters ... So 2 or 3 of them sounds about right...



MJ

 

[Justcruzin]

roalco, 100TD

Honestly, I'm not sure if that's plastic or glass... I'll have to double check.

BTW, the second one (on the right) is shorter and is metal (aluminium??). But it's got that same little cheezy plastic valve at the bottom...

I think what i'll probably end up doing is take all 3 of those filters off, drain & clean & and re-install them...

MJ

 

[100 TD]

I think what i'll probably end up doing is take all 3 of those filters off, drain & clean & and re-install them...

MJ

Change the filters, they look like the 296 filters, very common, about $6 ea, could be more now days
The filter tops can be piped differently depending which ports you plumb them to, either into the glass bowl first then thru the filter or vice versa.
Edit: Here you go, 2 for $5 Get 2 lots so you have spares
http://cgi.ebay.com/200417620384

 

[Justcruzin]

Change the filters, they look like the 296 filters, very common, about $6 ea, could be more now days
The filter tops can be piped differently depending which ports you plumb them to, either into the glass bowl first then thru the filter or vice versa.
Edit: Here you go, 2 for $5 Get 2 lots so you have spares
2 NEW FUEL FILTER CAV TYPE FIT FORD & MASSEY FERGUSON - eBay (item 200417620384 end time Mar-13-10 05:31:55 PST)

Two sets are on order! Thanks!

Didn't realize both were the same filter cartridge only the one on the left has a screw-on glass bowl while the other has just a regular aluminium bottom cap.

Thanks!

MJ

 

[toomanymachines]

Looks like the filters on my Massey tractor.

 

[Justcruzin]

Looks like the filters on my Massey tractor.

Actually, I think they'll fit IH and JD tractors too...

MJ