22R won't start........idle problems when it does........

[bigndn]

Alright.....I've been having problems with my '85 Toy mini with 22R (yep, carbed) starting for a while now. If I don't drive it every day, I have to pump the heck out of the skinny pedal just to get her going. So I go hunting.......and come home to a dead battery. Charge it up, but she won't start. I pull plug........looks like hell. I go get tuneup kit........new plugs, wires, rotor, dist cap, & fuel filter. She fires right up........runs like a champ. That was Nov 18. We now have a cold snap, and I had to let her sit for a day, battery low and won't start again! ARGGGGGGGG.

QUESTIONS ARE:

1) Battery is a Deka Dominator gel (marine), and new at that, so I'm thinking I have some drain going on somewhere. Any idea where to start?

2) Starter is acting funny, like it's disengaging, too. Time for a new starter????? I've never had one go out on a 22R, so not sure of the symptoms.

3) Carb sight glass appears to have fuel in it........can there be back-flow from the mech fuel pump or a leak somewhere? Any idea why the start-up idle is wack? Can I adjust it??

Thanks!

 

[KliersLC]

We aren't having a cold snap......he he he

I'd start by getting the battery tested, it wouldn't be the first time that a "new" battery ate it.

Yer gonna have to clarify the starter disengaging thing..

As far as the carb goes, you can adjust the idle screw to your desired rpm, but I'd also confirm that your acc. pump(s) are working. If not, it may be time for a rebuild.

I'd say that it is likely that your battery is the culprit for most of your problems. If it isn't turning the engine fast enough, especially when it is cold, they can have a hard time firing.

If the batt tests good, then check for an alternator drain. If the diode burns out it can drain the battery. I don't remember how those are set up, but if you have any voltage on your alternator case (requires breaking contact with engine) then the diode is bad...

If all else fails, test and/or replace the coil. i.e. you obviously have spark, you have air, and if you acc pumps are working, then you either have bad gas or cold spark. Since the coil is the only component in the ignition system you haven't already replaced, I'd look there.

Good luck.
Dan

 

[IDave]

When I had starting problems on our 84 mini, I looked at the battery (OK) then thought it might be the starter. Got a replacement, and no better than the original. Then, I cleaned the corroded starter wire at the connection to the starter (obviously, the other end, too). That was it.

It would have been a whole lot easier to start there than to swap batteries and starters first.

To check for a draw, you turn everything off, then pull one of the cables from the battery. Make sure the ignition is off. Touch the cable to the terminal briefly. If you DON"T see a spark, then it is safe to put an ammeter (or a 12 volt test light) between the cable end and the battery terminal to check for a tiny amount of draw. If you DO see a spark, then you know you have a draw, and you need to start to pulling fuses until you get rid of the spark. (Things like radio or clock memories sometimes get missed in the turn off phase, so don't forget that). If you have a good ammeter that will take high current flow, then you may be able to put it on even if it sparks, but high current will often cook an ammeter.

 

[bigndn]

Well, thanks a bunch fellas. I guess I'm really stumped now. I got home tonight and decided (on a whim) to try to start the mini........without jumper cables/batt charger. Guess what? She fired right up. I'm totally stumped now, other than the starter needing replaced. All I can come up with is what Dan said about the battery being weak and not turning the engine over fast enough when it's cold.

Dan, you mentioned acc pump(s)?? I assume you must be referring to some auxillary fuel pump? I have no idea where that would be? In the tank? Along the frame rail? Please clarify.

You also asked for more info on the starter disengaging. It is as if the starter is still spinning, but has disengaged from the flywheel. The engine turns over and then doesn't, but the starter is still spooling up. Does that help??

Dave, what do you mean by the replacement starter being no better than the original? No improvement I'd guess??

I'll be driving it to Sandpoint tomorrow (hopefully), so I'll have the battery checked and I guess troubleshoot from there. Thanks a bunch for your input, fellas!!!!! Now I have a few things to look at.

 

[IDave]

Yep, the replacement starter didn't do any better. It was the corroded contact between the starter wire and the starter. I'm sayin' file/clean/wirebrush those contacts before you do anything else.

 

[bigndn]

Yep, the replacement starter didn't do any better. It was the corroded contact between the starter wire and the starter. I'm sayin' file/clean/wirebrush those contacts before you do anything else.

Copy, will do. I'll fit that in this weekend! Thanks for the input Dave!

 

[KliersLC]

Sorry,

The acc stands for accelerator pump. they are located on the sides of the carb and have mechanical linkage to engage them when you hit the throttle. Testing them can be done by.

A) Look down the carb with the engine off, cycle the throttle by hand and look for a good squirt of fuel.

B) Inspect the pumps themselves for leaks, gas leaking from the carb is always bad......

Your starter problem can be caused by two things, poor connection/amperage, or sticky plunger/bendix drive.

Dave's recommendation on cleaning contacts is spot on, and rebuiling your starter takes about an hour and costs ten dollars or so.

It is possible that the starter has some gunk accumulated that is inhibiting the movement of the plunger or bendix drive. Just take it apart, replace the plunger and the contacts, clean out any gunk and install...

Good luck,
Dan