1983 FJ60 front axle job questions.

[60 toy ota]

I will say though that I did a "test" pull using a fish scale on the knuckle and while it required about 9 ft-lbs. of force, which was within spec, there were some parts of the rotation that seemed a bit stuck for lack a better term.

Also, the shims on the top did NOT equal the shims on the bottom, which per the FSM seems to be ok as the top shims are used for a different alignment than the bottom shims. Am I interpreting this correctly ? Since I do not have access to the $300-400 tool I am simply going to reuse the shims in the exact same position as when I removed them.

View attachment 1365963

the top isn't necessarily different from the bottom, it depends on the individual axle and knuckle combo. the important thing is that you add/subtract an equal amount (not equal number of shims, but = thickness) from top to bottom. This is to keep the knuckle centered on the axle. If it gets off center your drive axle will wear an oval into your oil seal and spindle bushing. A well manufactured bearing will likely not require a change to the shims, but don't count on it. I used national (best aftermarket afaik) and had to subtract shims.

 

[fjgdk]

the top isn't necessarily different from the bottom, it depends on the individual axle and knuckle combo. the important thing is that you add/subtract an equal amount (not equal number of shims, but = thickness) from top to bottom. This is to keep the knuckle centered on the axle. If it gets off center your drive axle will wear an oval into your oil seal and spindle bushing. A well manufactured bearing will likely not require a change to the shims, but don't count on it. I used national (best aftermarket afaik) and had to subtract shims.

is there any way to do the centering without using the $300-$400 SST's mentioned in the factory service manual ? I said I wanted to do this whole job "right" and would take the time to do it, but the price tag on the "right" tool is killing me.

One of the youtube videos concerning this job I had watched was adding or subtracting shims using just the measure of the bearing pre-load using a fish scale. Is this also reflective of the centering ?

 

[60 toy ota]

Is this also reflective of the centering ?

NO. you "could" get the right preload reading even when one bearing is way too tight and the other too loose. If you do a search you can see how some people have made the tool themselves, but it will stay centered as long as you add/subtract equal amounts from top and bottom, negating the need for the centering tool. For example, if you had 1.5 mm of shims on top and 1.00 mm on bottom to begin with, then 1.6 & 1.1, 1.4 & 0.9, 0.00 & 0.5, etc. would all be correct combinations as far as centering is concerned. If you took off all the shims without making the note of which ones went on top and which ones went on bottom, then yeah, you're hosed until you can get a hold of a tool (don't just assume that you can look at the other side either, it won't be the same). hope that was at least somewhat understandable.

If you look closely the thickness of the shim is printed on the face, so it's not too hard to tell what's what. If it's hard to read, a set of calipers will be your friend. last, If you buggered up the shims like I did trying to take off the caps, I would not try to re-use them. I just ordered two sets of every possible shim from toyota and they said that whatever I didn't end up using I could return.

 

[Stumpalama]

Use Koyo knuckle bearings... I've never used the tool when redoing my knuckles and all have been fine. Just install new koyo bearings and reuse the shims you have in the correct places. I can't imagine that bearings will vary enough in their specs to cause an issue with centering. Also, you can use marlin seals if you are really worried about a few thousandths of misalignment. I use them anyway because they are easier to install correctly (an outer lip prevents installing them too deep and ensures they are square.

Literally thousands of knuckles done by people on this board and almost all were done without the centering tool, unless they mixed up the shims or were installing another set of knuckles off another truck i.e. disk brake swap.

Look at it this way: if your grease was good when you pulled the birfs, and it was, then your knuckles are centered fine right now.
Again, just install new koyo bearings install shims correctly and run it.

 

[60 toy ota]

correct. Hard to imagine the discrepancy in the bearings creating a change in centering, but the the same can't be said for preload...don't assume that the preload is the same just cause you have new bearings and races...always check.

 

[Stumpalama]

correct. Hard to imagine the discrepancy in the bearings creating a change in centering, but the the same can't be said for preload...don't assume that the preload is the same just cause you have new bearings and races...always check.

Yes, that is a true statement. I've done many knuckle jobs, but I always check preload.
As i understand it, the lower shims adjust knuckle center and upper shims are for preload.

 

[xtremeVA]

Since you are dealing with rust I would also like to chime in about a de-rusting product that I used which is simply amazing: EvapoRust. I first cleaned rusty oily parts using the Orange based cleaner from HomeDepot. Then I scraped off some of the heavy rust and submerged the parts in EvapoRust overnight. It works GREAT, and it's not a harsh/toxic. I threw in some rusty bolts overnight....no rust in the morning. Its worth having a small bucket around for submerging parts to de-rust. Got it off Amazon for a pretty good price. I highly recommend trying out a gallon of this stuff.

 

[fjgdk]

the top isn't necessarily different from the bottom, it depends on the individual axle and knuckle combo. the important thing is that you add/subtract an equal amount (not equal number of shims, but = thickness) from top to bottom. This is to keep the knuckle centered on the axle. If it gets off center your drive axle will wear an oval into your oil seal and spindle bushing. A well manufactured bearing will likely not require a change to the shims, but don't count on it. I used national (best aftermarket afaik) and had to subtract shims.

Thanks 60 and Stumpalama ; let me say back what I think you said to make sure I follow:

1) Assuming that I keep the shims that were previously on in their exact same positions, I can assume that my rebuild will be centered with reasonable certainty and if I were to use the Marlin Crawler eco-seal it would eliminate even the slightest chance of seal damage due to un-centeredness.

2) Given 1) above, it is the only the pre-load which I should test and add/remove equal amounts of shim to the top and bottom (with the original shim amounts on to start) to achieve the desired pre-load.

Now another question:
3) If I do go ahead with the replacement of the spindle bushing as the fsm suggests, does that negate the assumption in 1) ? I've been told not to change the spindle as it rarely needs replacing, but just wanted to know how it would fit in the whole "centering"/"pre-load" scheme if I were to go ahead and replace the bushings.

This is an '83 FJ60 I bought from the original owner with 283k miles, all stock. The original owner was an old doctor and had it serviced at the dealer until about 250k from what I could tell from the carfax when I bought it. Just giving some idea on the changing the spindle.

 

[fjgdk]

I am not touching this project again until this weekend when the bitter cold subsides. I may try out the EvapoRust per xtremeVA though in the meantime.

 

[60 toy ota]

Thanks 60 and Stumpalama ; let me say back what I think you said to make sure I follow:

1) Assuming that I keep the shims that were previously on in their exact same positions, I can assume that my rebuild will be centered with reasonable ABSOLUTE certainty and if I were to use the Marlin Crawler eco-seal it would eliminate even the slightest chance of seal damage due to un-centeredness. Never used them, can't agree/disagree here. @Stumpalama may know.

2) Given 1) above, it is the only the pre-load which I should test and add/remove equal amounts of shim to the top and bottom (with the original shim amounts on to start) to achieve the desired pre-load. Correct.

Now another question:
3) If I do go ahead with the replacement of the spindle bushing as the fsm suggests, does that negate the assumption in 1) ? I've been told not to change the spindle as it rarely needs replacing, but just wanted to know how it would fit in the whole "centering"/"pre-load" scheme if I were to go ahead and replace the bushings. No, replacing/not replacing the bushing shouldn't have any affect on the centering.

This is an '83 FJ60 I bought from the original owner with 283k miles, all stock. The original owner was an old doctor and had it serviced at the dealer until about 250k from what I could tell from the carfax when I bought it. Just giving some idea on the changing the spindle. I have 281 and the original spindle, no problems (knock on wood).

 

[fjgdk]

One more thing 60 - did couldmy beating on the studs on top of the knuckle with a brass hammer to get the cone washers out likely have screwed up the centering ?

 

[Stumpalama]

One more thing 60 - did couldmy beating on the studs on top of the knuckle with a brass hammer to get the cone washers out likely have screwed up the centering ?

No.

 

[Stumpalama]

1) Assuming that I keep the shims that were previously on in their exact same positions, I can assume that my rebuild will be centered with reasonable certainty and if I were to use the Marlin Crawler eco-seal it would eliminate even the slightest chance of seal damage due to un-centeredness.

A: Given the history you provided below, I would suspect these were done by a dealer at least once... That being said I am confident your knuckles are centered, based on the pics provided.
Marlin seals are my choice.

2) Given 1) above, it is the only the pre-load which I should test and add/remove equal amounts of shim to the top and bottom (with the original shim amounts on to start) to achieve the desired pre-load.

A: Your preload will most likely be within the wide range of spec. If not, read below:

Bearing preload is adjusted by adding/ subtracting shims from the TOP of the knuckle.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: The bottom shim is what determines the knuckle center (this is based on the instructions for using the centering tool). Think of it this way: the bottom shim is the constant, once calculated and installed, it is as if it is a piece of the knuckle and preload will be adjusted from the top and adding or subtracting shims from the top will not change the verticle position of the knuckle. If, however, you were to add a shim to the bottom to adjust preload, you will move the knuckle DOWN by the thickness of the shim. The haynes manual is WRONG!

Now another question:
3) If I do go ahead with the replacement of the spindle bushing as the fsm suggests, does that negate the assumption in 1) ? I've been told not to change the spindle as it rarely needs replacing, but just wanted to know how it would fit in the whole "centering"/"pre-load" scheme if I were to go ahead and replace the bushings.

A: Spindle bushings are a TREMENDOUS PITA to get out. I destroyed mine removing them (they came out in several pieces) when I removed them for my rear full floating axle conversion. Chances are the spindle bushing is fine. It is rarely damaged unless there was knuckle or birf failure. Check the condition of them and if they have a rough spot, then just take a 1/2 round file or some sandpaper on a dowel to smooth it out. They are typically not a significant wear item. Again, probably thousands of birf jobs done without replacing spindle bushings.

This is an '83 FJ60 I bought from the original owner with 283k miles, all stock. The original owner was an old doctor and had it serviced at the dealer until about 250k from what I could tell from the carfax when I bought it. Just giving some idea on the changing the spindle.[/QUOTE]

 

[fjgdk]

Been a long time, I am holding true to my "do this at my leisure" concept hehe.

I've been cleaning, painting and baking. Close to the final re-assembly. Whoever mentioned using Evapo-rust was 110% spot on. It's even better than hydrolysis in that the item you de-rust won't immediately re-rust when exposed to air. It's also supposedly non-toxic and you can "flush it away without worry, get it on your hands without worry etc." Can't say enough about it. It is somewhat expensive which is the only downside.

On the right is a picture of the passenger side caliper prior to disassembly of the axle:

Here it is after cleaning off some debris with the nylon brush that is attached to the hose of my parts cleaner and then letting it sit submerged in evapo-rust for several days, I cannot say enough about evapo-rust.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Been a long time, I am holding true to my "do this at my leisure" concept hehe.

I've been cleaning, painting and baking. Close to the final re-assembly. Whoever mentioned using Evapo-rust was 110% spot on. It's even better than hydrolysis in that the item you de-rust won't immediately re-rust when exposed to air. It's also supposedly non-toxic and you can "flush it away without worry, get it on your hands without worry etc." Can't say enough about it. It is somewhat expensive which is the only downside.

On the right is a picture of the passenger side caliper prior to disassembly of the axle:
View attachment 1378839

Here it is after cleaning off some debris with the nylon brush that is attached to the hose of my parts cleaner and then letting it sit submerged in evapo-rust for several days, I cannot say enough about evapo-rust.
View attachment 1378847

And you said (or someone said) it can be had at Home Depot?

 

[fjgdk]

And you said (or someone said) it can be had at Home Depot?

1)Home Depot has it but only through web ordering - it is not in stores.
Search Results for evapo-rust at The Home Depot

2) Advance Auto has it, but in my area each store had maybe one of the smaller (pint or quart I can't remember) bottles or if I got luck a gallon jug.

3) I should have been more patient and ordered what I wanted through Home Depot, but I didn't want to wait. In the end I went around to various Advance Auto's and getting what I could from them to make up about 3.5 gallons (put in a 5 gallon Home Depot bucket).

4) The stuff is reusable until it isn't - when it turns black supposedly. Hoping to use my approx $80 investment in the Evapo-rust for both sides of the front axle job I am doing (all the big parts are done for one side, and am finishing up the bolts/fasteners now).

 

[Prairie Swamp]

And you said (or someone said) it can be had at Home Depot?

Harbor Freight is an option - $28/gallon.

Eric

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Cool for the info, thank you. Its $22.95gal at home depot... ship to store option around me.

 

[4Cruisers]

A 1-gallon container of Evapo-Rust is on sale at Tractor Supply Company for $20.00. I'm picking some up in Santa Fe when I'm down there tomorrow afternoon.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

A 1-gallon container of Evapo-Rust is on sale at Tractor Supply Company for $20.00. I'm picking some up in Santa Fe when I'm down there tomorrow afternoon.

Good to know. I frequently there often for my birds food.