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photogod

photogod

Joined
May 21, 2004
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MN physically, MI spiritually
Got the results back from Blackstone with a few suggestions from the gurus. Everything was perfect except for the iron and lead count which means bearings. Universal average is 5 on iron and mine was 10, universal average on lead is 2, mine was 6. I ran three changes with Rotella T Synth 5W-40 before I sent the sample in. Following some advice here on the board I ran 8000 miles between changes and added 1 qt between to top off.

Sugestions from Blackstone are to back down on the intervals to 4700 miles and resend sample.

Looks like I'm back to my original feeling of shorter intervals as I have always done. I will be running rotella at 4000 mile intervals from now on.

On the + side no water, no antifreeze, flashpoint perfect, fuel almost negligable and phosphorus and zink are high meaning great anti wear properties are still working. The filtering of air and oil are perfect, so at least that's working. Everything else was at or below universal averages.

Advise from board members is always great but untill you do an oil report like this you never know what your engine is doing. This is great peace of mind knowing that the 8000 mile intervals are to much for this engine and now I know what to do to prevent premature bearing wear, if that damage has not allready been done. :crybaby:
 
I was about to send a sample in and balked at the $22.50. I've still got an empty in the garage, but plan to change at 5000. I'm running Rotella T as well. Thanks for the report.
 
I don't know if you'll find this helpful, but I ran M1 0W-40 without any problems for 6k miles and I could prob have gone 7k or more with a filter change at 3,500...

blackstone.gif
 
I wouldn't worry about iron as much.... what was your lead reading? Any chance you can grab a screenshot of your results?
 
I just ordered a kit. It would be great to see what my engine is doing.
 
I do two analysis runs a year. Give you a good idea whats going on with your engine and if you need to solve a problem before it gets serious; and its good peace of mind for $45 a year.
 
I'm going to differ with blackstone here, they tend to be overly conservative. Did you get a TBN? There are some very simple reasons for you numbers to be "slightly" higher than average:

1) You ran a longer interval than the average sample (which is generally about 4000 miles for them if I remember). Twice as long on a sample = twice as much wear metals in the oil. You have to look at wear particles on a per 1000 mile basis.

2) The absolute numbers are still great. Until you get above 30 on either lead or iron, they are good, above 80 is where you start to get worried.

3) Your truck is very heavy. It is operated under "severe" conditions all the time. Given the conditions the report is excellent.

Unless your TBN was low, or the oil had thickened out of grade or had a lot of insolubles, I would feel just fine continuing the 7.5k interval.

Perhaps Raventai will chime in here.
 
I agree, your numbers sound fine. Anything bolded on your sheet is what you are supposed to monitor. None of your readings are high... they are "above normal" which doesn't really mean much, and certainly are not indicating any danger.


Did you do a filter change with that long interval too?
 
What's a TBN Cary :confused:

cary said:
I'm going to differ with blackstone here, they tend to be overly conservative. Did you get a TBN? There are some very simple reasons for you numbers to be "slightly" higher than average:

1) You ran a longer interval than the average sample (which is generally about 4000 miles for them if I remember). Twice as long on a sample = twice as much wear metals in the oil. You have to look at wear particles on a per 1000 mile basis.

2) The absolute numbers are still great. Until you get above 30 on either lead or iron, they are good, above 80 is where you start to get worried.

3) Your truck is very heavy. It is operated under "severe" conditions all the time. Given the conditions the report is excellent.

Unless your TBN was low, or the oil had thickened out of grade or had a lot of insolubles, I would feel just fine continuing the 7.5k interval.

Perhaps Raventai will chime in here.
Click to expand...
 
TBN is Total Base Number. It tells you how much of the additive packages is left in the oil. By looking at TBN, Viscosity, and insolubles, you can determine how used up the oil is. I'm guessing yours wasn't, the numbers are IMHO a result of your mileage and use.
 
Whoever is analyzing your oil is a little aggressive.

You'll see a few of my readings are above universal averages but they are not being flagged....
 
I'll be the first to admit I know little or nothing about oil but it seems odd to me that the synthetice are touted as having greater anti wear charicteristics than regular dino oils but what I see here is the elevated levels, although they are minute, in the iron and lead levels. If synth's are so superior, why are those levels elivated even when the change intervals are under the factory suggestions? It would seem to me those levels should be lower than they are.

Nater, my iron levels were lower than yours even though I went 2000 over your interval. lead higher though. Also you added 2.5 quarts to top off. I added 1 in 8000mi. at 4000mi.

I guess I'm still not sold on synthetics and their touted longer change intervals and better protection. When I made the first change to my sons 91 there was a ton of sludge in the valve cover and the PO used Mobile 1 the entire life of the vehicle and documented the 8000 to 10,000 mile intervals.

All in all, I'm happy with what I see, especially the no water and antifreeze levels!!

Thanks for your comments all...
 
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Did you have a TBN done on your oil. That would tell the tale re: synthetic versus dino.

You're reading too much into a minuscule amount of iron. It is highly likely that these motors just show a little more iron than blackstone's universal averages are used to. No big deal... now if it starts creeping towards 30-40+, then you have a red flag.

I just switched to a heavier M1 mix 10W-40 and my consumption has dropped to basically zero. I'm going to run this sample to 7k with 1 filter change at 3500mi and see how analysis comes out after it. If it comes out well I will keep running 10W-40 as it seems to be a better mix for this truck.

My two cents.
 
photogod said:
I'll be the first to admit I know little or nothing about oil but it seems odd to me that the synthetice are touted as having greater anti wear charicteristics than regular dino oils but what I see here is the elevated levels, although they are minute, in the iron and lead levels. If synth's are so superior, why are those levels elivated even when the change intervals are under the factory suggestions? It would seem to me those levels should be lower than they are.

Nater, my iron levels were lower than yours even though I went 2000 over your interval. lead higher though. Also you added 2.5 quarts to top off. I added 1 in 8000mi. at 4000mi.

I guess I'm still not sold on synthetics and their touted longer change intervals and better protection. When I made the first change to my sons 91 there was a ton of sludge in the valve cover and the PO used Mobile 1 the entire life of the vehicle and documented the 8000 to 10,000 mile intervals.

All in all, I'm happy with what I see, especially the no water and antifreeze levels!!

Thanks for your comments all...
Click to expand...

Your reading to much into very low levels. Remember, your vehicle is much heavier than most 80's, you are in essence operating under severe conditions all the time.

A good synthetic will allow you to run longer intervals than a mineral oil. For the same interval you would have likely had higher wear numbers and the oil would have depleted it's additive package and started to thicken out of grade.

As far as your son's 91, someone was lying about what oil they used, or there was something very wrong with the engines. Unless you push the intervals way to long, I have never seen a engine sludge from M1.
 
Quick note, Rotella T-syn is a American Petroleum Institute group III oil, what that means is the base stock the finished oil was made with is hydro cracked mineral oil, technically it is not synthetic, but it does have advantages over regular oil (group II) and is a great oil for the price, another note the Rotella T-sysn sold in Canada is a group IV (PAO)

your iron does not look high compared to my reports, although my motor does not produce some of the stellar reports seen in some 1FZ's

I have pulled 4 reports over the years, the average of the sample was about 5k miles,
my average iron is 7,
the high was 9 on 0w-40 at 6k miles,
low 4 on 15w-50 ran into colder weather and drained it after only 3k miles,

lead average is 6, also low 4 high 9,

I have put on about 80K miles in the last 3.5 years no problems.

seeing twice the universal averages may look scary at first but to get some perspective my 01 chevy with 49K miles on the ODO blew a 51 lead and 26 iron. that is high, a motor with serious acute problems can through numbers in the hundreds,
 
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cary said:
I have never seen a engine sludge from M1.
Click to expand...

Same here, at least judging by pics people post on the net. Mobil1 motors usually look new from the factory when the valve covers come off at 100k and more. My only personal experience was the valve cover on my Acura at 70k miles. There wasn't even any varnish-the parts were bright shiny new looking metal. I was pretty impressed. That engine had run Mobil1 since 1000 miles.

Your worries are exactly the reason I don't do an oil analysis. I mean, based on any of that, are you going to do anything different? You'll still drive it till it breaks, only now you worry about your lead level. And if your head gasket goes south, you arn't going to need an oil analysis to tell you!
 
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