FJ40 Full Floater Axle Build (IH8C-CLIPS) (3 Viewers)

[peesalot]

I mentioned the pressure angle because there is a GM 30 spline as well and they are not interchangeable.
As far as a snap ring groove or threaded hole, it does not sound like you have enough room for snap ring. A threaded hole will be helpful in pulling axle. You did not say if the TG hubs use a snap ring like the GM to retain the drive slug ??? I assume they do and as you stated, when the cap/cover is screwed on there is not enough room for snap ring, you mean you don't wanna let the axle float between the cap/cover and the cross shaft in carrier/locker ? Won't the splines limit the axle movement ? unless the splines are cut way extra long they should bottom out and prevent axle from floating too much.

 

[Stumpalama]

I mentioned the pressure angle because there is a GM 30 spline as well and they are not interchangeable.
As far as a snap ring groove or threaded hole, it does not sound like you have enough room for snap ring. A threaded hole will be helpful in pulling axle. You did not say if the TG hubs use a snap ring like the GM to retain the drive slug ??? I assume they do and as you stated, when the cap/cover is screwed on there is not enough room for snap ring, you mean you don't wanna let the axle float between the cap/cover and the cross shaft in carrier/locker ? Won't the splines limit the axle movement ? unless the splines are cut way extra long they should bottom out and prevent axle from floating too much.

The kit came with a cap screw and washer for the end of the axle. I know when I took my 1981 FJ40 front end apart for the 1st time, it had a bolt and washer at the end with Warn hubs.
There is enough room for a c- clip. I used a birfield to test for length and the splines were just a hair too short to slide on a c-clip, but based on the measurements of the end of the birf, I could fit a c-clip groove and have plenty of room under the cap.

The TG hub does indeed use a snap ring, but it retains the cap, which, I assume, is meant to retain the drive slug. Yes, I want the outer splines cut just long enough so they limit the outward travel of the axle shaft so it does not hit the cap. This may be common knowledge to most, but this is new to me, so I am over analyzing in order to fully understand how these things work and make sure I do it correctly the 1st time. So the long and short of it is, when all is said and done, I need to ensure that less than 11/16 of axle shaft is sticking out from beyond the drive slug. That is easily accomplished, even with a c-clip groove, based on my measurements.

I wasn't sure if there was a known preference for the c-clip over the bolt and washer. My first thought is that there is 0% chance of the c-clip coming loose, but a bolt can back out, but again that is my ignorance and maybe a little paranoia coming through. I might do the c-clip groove, but will definitely get the end tapped if for nothing else than for exactly the reason you stated, pulling the axle out. I do this with birfs all the time.

The slug is 1.125" tall, the c-clip groove is .118" and the outer end of the shaft is .25"

 

[pjohnson]

Can you take a pic of the axle and slug seated in the hub, showing the depth into the hub body?

The TG hubs are spendy but this is an almost perfect application for them.

 

[Stumpalama]

Sure can. Why didn't I think if that?

 

[pjohnson]

I'm thinking the axle end spline/c-clip measurements would be exactly the same as the birfield. Then you just determine overall length and spline length on the diff end.

I'm guessing the cap on the hub prevents the axle walking out of the diff (?)

Edit: just figured out the spline length on the end would do that.

 

[White Stripe]

Torching all the brackets off an OEM rear 80 housing and grinding it all down smooth is no joke...2 hours is a bit of a stretch. And, in the end, you still have a hub stud based FF setup.

To me, the most interesting part of this project is that he's going to test the studless hubs in a rear FF application. I, for one, am pretty fired up to see how it all works out.

Yeah you are right, it probably took me a bit longer to get everything cleaned up. A plasma cutter definitely sped things up. The studless hubs will be cool. I guess I think I would still go the 80 route again because I like the 63" wms. In fact I wish it was a little bit wider-like 65" wms. With 35's or bigger tires it really improves stability a lot.

 

[Stumpalama]

I think for simplicity, I am just going to do the bolt and washer retention method. I plan to use the current birf spline length measurement for the custom axle. EDIT: I meant to say I will use the drive slug thickness plus 1/8" for the splines.

Picture of the birf in the hub, as requested:

 

[White Stripe]

I think for simplicity, I am just going to do the bolt and washer retention method. I plan to use the current birf spline length measurement for the custom axle.

Picture of the birf in the hub, as requested:

I think the bolt method is easier for servicing anyway. Im not really a fan of c clips just cuz they are a little harder to remove than a bolt.

 

[pjohnson]

From the pic, it doesn't look like the clip would go on the end of the birf anyway.

 

[cruisermatt]

So, I don't get it. What keeps the shaft from walking?

 

[Mudder]

My understanding is a bolt at the end with a washer big enough to keep it from walking.

 

[Stumpalama]

So, I don't get it. What keeps the shaft from walking?

I still sort of have the same question and have come to the conclusion that the cap keeps the shaft and slug from walking out. The spline lengths, determine the amount of "play" in the inner shaft assembly,

 

[Stumpalama]

From the pic, it doesn't look like the clip would go on the end of the birf anyway.

No it wouldn't, but that is just a birf, and if I were to want a clip, I would just adjust the measurements for the custom axle, but bolt and washer are dead easy and simple. I like simple at this point.

 

[fountainhead]

The bolt/washer in the end of the shaft (or a c-clip) will keep the shaft from moving inward further into the carrier.

The drive slug bottoming out on the outer splines is what keeps the shaft from walking out (assuming the slug itself can't walk out).

What's odd, though, is that, based on your measurements, the entire shaft/slug/bolt and washer (or c-clip) assembly will have 3/16" of play inside the housing. I would have assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this would be fixed.

 

[J Mack]

Looking at the TG hubs a couple things come to mind about using them VS the Toyota hubs and RCV drive flanges. When using the drive flanges the axle is locked to the flange with the snap ring preventing movement then the flange is bolted to the hub again preventing movement much like all full floating axle arrangements I’ve seen locked to the hub side only. The things that would concern me with the TG hub is how to control the movement of the axle and relying on just the outer snap ring to prevent the assembly from moving outwards, I can’t tell you how much outward force is applied but I can tell you with my first axles the splines were cut too long and the axles would move out and blow the caps on the drive flanges off in about two miles and these caps took considerable force to install so I know it’s more than a gentle push.

If you have 3/16” or more of float this could make this worse by letting the assembly hammer on the outer cap putting even more pressure on the outer snap ring, the inner spindle bushing prevents this when used on the front axle but I’m not seeing a way unless you add C-clips like the factory axles and lock them at the carrier to minimize the float and not solely rely on a the snap ring that looks like it was designed only to keep the dust cap on.

I’m not an expert and I don’t make any claims to be right, I’m just throwing some ideas out to consider.

 

[pjohnson]

I'm with J Mack. I would want to limit movement. Perhaps a spacer/washer that takes up the slack.

 

[47coeman]

J Mack
I am hopeful that someone pipes in here that can explain this as I am with you on this question. I have a full float in progress also and have not ordered the axles yet. I know someone is out there that can explain this to us so it can be clear.

 

[fountainhead]

... the inner spindle bushing prevents this when used on the front axle but I’m not seeing a way unless you add C-clips like the factory axles and lock them at the carrier to minimize the float and not solely rely on a the snap ring that looks like it was designed only to keep the dust cap on.

Maybe that's it...maybe TG only designed these for use in front axle applications where the spindle bushing would prevent such movement.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The inner axle in the front has two snap rings to hold it onto the birf - an outer that goes up against the outside of the star gear and an inner that snaps inside the star wheel. Why not use a system like that for the rear here?

 

[J Mack]

If you could add a heavy snap ring to the area with the arrow you would end up with a system very similar to the Spidertrax drive flange I use on my other Toyota with an aftermarket rear end.

This PDF shows the Spidertrax drive flange assembly,

https://system.netsuite.com/core/me...F&vid=YBMiZE0DAnP8kFGK&cktime=131794&gc=clear