Builds dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much? (2 Viewers)

[norsk]

Skipping step 22, and onto 23:

Removed 5 bolts and tapped the front case off of the tranny

Pic of the rear of the tranny. Learned that the bearing on the shaft is not replaced in the TC kit. So I leave it alone.

Step 24 Pressed out the front output shaft. I could NOT have done this job without the press in the barn. It made things SO MUCH EASIER. Pressed out the old bearing and pressed the new bearing back in.

Step 25, remove the H/L shift outer and inner lever

I am skipping steps 26 to 28 till later

 

[norsk]

Inspection section on page TF-19

Step 4 will do later, picked up a Pilot bearing SST from OReillys

Step 5 Used a punch and gently tapped out the bearing race

Step 6 Used a punch and gently tapped out the bearing race and shim. Race came out very easy. Installed new race, reused shim.

Front and rear bearing races installed

Steps 7, 8, 9 and 10 Replace oil seals

Pic of Step 8 prior to replacing for documentation

At this point I made a mistake, after cleaning stuff up and installing the oil seals I put the front case BACK onto the tranny, but I soon discovered (by reading the FSM) I forgot to press the front output shaft into the bearing now already in the case. I had removed and replaced the front shaft bear TF-17 Step 24 above, but failed to press in the shaft and then reconnected the case to the tranny.

So back off with the torqued case, press the shaft into the bearing.
Below is after the shaft was pressed in (BTW, that was a bit nerve racking for me, as I was pressing into a bearing that was clipped into the housing. I heard every creak of the press)
and the fork re-inserted.

 

[norsk]

Pile of old parts

Output shaft and needs old bearings pulled, including the pilot bearing. Waiting for another day.

This took the old guy 8 hours to get to here. I tried to be slow and steady to get it right. I doubled checked many things, I took the 2 cases and the bearing housing to the car washing, put degreaser on them and did my best to clean them up.

Pic of rear case

Ironically, Jake was installing 5 speed upgrade into a FJ60 as well. He swapped out the TC in half the time I did, though I was doing bearings etc that he did not. This was the first time ever doing a TC rebuild for me and was a bit nervous. BUT after researching it, and reading the FSM several times THEN actually starting it, it has all come together. Asked Jake a few questions when I got jammed up.

I found extra O rings and cotter pins in the parts kit, which I believe are also for the Automatic TC option.

This has been a great experience for me and will finish it up later this week. I did hurt/stress my back doing this and receive "the talk" from my wife about that, but all is good

Oh yeah, I pulled the OEM air breather from the case and tapped a 1/4" NPT thread and inserted a 1/4" brass nipple fitting for running the air vent up to the firewall. Sorry for the fuzzy, I was getting tired, low on blood sugar and my hands were shaking more here.

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Doug

It looks like you had a great day and got a lot done!! Take it easy on the back and I usually snack on those little bags of mixed nuts and lots of water down here in the heat.

Was a regular arbor press good enough? Any special fixture to push stuff in or out needed?

Thanks
John

 

[norsk]

I drank a lot of water and ate fried chicken.

I used some longer sockets and a piece of pipe to get it to reach the press point also sized the socket to press on the outer ring to lessen pressures to the balls.

the press looks like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html

UPDATE: Read the capacity of the press at Jake's barn today, Monday: 20 tonner instead of the above 12 ton

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Fancy! My stuff is a bit older - I think that it was used right after the Model A came out, and I bought it. It's an arbor press made in 1939, (I think anyway, I know it has some stamping on it).

Keep going! I need to have something to read when I do mine!! :-D

 

[norsk]

Yeah, the press is nice. It is Jake's and is at the barn. Nice to have access to it for my project. I just pay some electric bill fees and some other stuff. I am giving him the pilot bearing puller (just $15 from OReillys)


Page TF-17 Step 26

Measured the thrust clearance of the bearings around the High and Low gears and they came in at .008 in, within spec

Step 27a Remove the snap ring. These snap ring is not like the ones I am used to: No hole to put the plier tips into

I have never used a press before this rebuild, so I was careful and slow doing the operation.

I believe the pictures in Steps 27b and 28 are switched. I found I had to do Step 28 FIRST in order to fit the shaft on the press properly. Using the low (big) gear in Step 28 I removed the bearing and low gear from the shaft.

THEN I did Step 27b because I then could use the high (small) gear on the rest shelf of the press.

First the rear bearing and low gear:

Here the small gear fits between the 2x4s. Needed the 2x4 because the small gear did not fit between the press rails

And here the bearing and low (big) gear has popped off

 

[norsk]

Here is the picture of the partial tear down with the low (big) gear and bearing off the shaft

Note the broken bearing side in the next pic near the top. This bearing felt more "loose" than the other one and more than the new bearngs:

Now to remove the front bearing and high (small) gear (notice the long socket on top - needed to push down INTO the output gear for a couple of inches):

And the complete shaft disassembled:

Page TF-20 Step 4 Here the pilot bearing about to be removed - had to go rent the puller and the sliding hammer:

 

[norsk]

Still Step 4 pilot bearing removed

And new one back in

Okay to page TF-25 Assembly Step 1
Pressing on high (small) gear and its bearing along with the front gear

Okay high (small) gear and its bearing installed with snap ring in place

Pressing the low (big) gear and its bearing onto the rear output shaft. Needed a long pipe to fit over the shaft end since it was several inches long.

 

[norsk]

Output shaft fully rebuilt, thrush spaces are greater than .004 inches and less than .008 inches, both within spec

And placed into the front case

That took 2 hours tonight and I believe the hardest parts of the job are over. Left to do is place the IDLER shaft, its bearings and gears into its hole, put in the forks and put the case together. Hope to do that tomorrow.

Learned a lot about a transfer case, how the H/L operates and the 2 to 4 switch occurs. I also see how "small" the front gears/clutch/teeth are. I now believe it wise not to drive in 4wd at higher speeds. I don't think it is as strong as the rear power path is. Amazing to me 30+ year old technology and it works to this day with maintainance.

I hope these pics help some others

dougbert

 

[norsk]

This morning I am lucky. I made an assumption on the output shaft bearings and lucky I put them on the way I did. The front and rear bearings are different. Doh!

Re-reading another thread (https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/transfer-assembly-with-pictures.487813/ clearer pictures than mine and a great thread) at post https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/transfer-assembly-with-pictures.487813/#post-6668503 shows the two different part numbers. When I got to the barn this morning, I checked the bearing boxes and yep, different part numbers but (here is the luck part) I had put them on in the right locations - oooooh, sigh.

Also determined (as the FSM points out) I need to start installation of shafts with the IDLER and its gears FIRST, then the INPUT then the OUTPUT shafts.


Assembly section, page TF-27 step 11a to 11e - install O-rings on IDLER shaft and install IDLER into front case.
Install thrust washer, properly placed and in its groove. Install bearing, spacer and 2nd bearing

Step 11f Install the IDLER gear set

Step 13 Input gear

Step 14 spacer and PTO gear and Step 15 bearing

Step 17 install output shaft with fork

 

[norsk]

Installed the H/L fork selector in the rear case

Step 17 Put the output shaft with H/L fork into the front output holder

Step 18 stick on thrust washer on rear case

Step 19 Install Transfer rear case

And bolt it down. I have one of the LONG bolts I need to chase its threads, but the case is back on.
I shifted through the H/L and 2wd/4wd, all shafts turned easy, and they shifted fine. I think it works

Later will do the remaining outside parts.

dougbert

 

[Slow Left]

You might want to double check and make sure that the H/L lever shaft can't drop down into transfer case (when set at 4H, N or 4L using the lever arm outside of the transfer case) and cause the lever arm inside of the case loose contact with the shift fork that is also inside of the case.

It is an easy fix by adding either washers or e-clips around the H/L lever shaft between the lever arm on the outside of the case and the case housing...and easier to do with the case off of the vehicle than on.

The risk is, with the case on the vehicle, if you remove the outer lever from the H/L lever shaft, the shaft might drop down inside the case and you would have to break the case open again to get it back up into position.

While I bench tested the shifting from 4H, N, 4L and back, I didn't pull up and down on to see if there was any vertical moment of the shaft assembly when it was in each of these positions. So after I reinstalled the transmission and was test driving the vehicle, I was driving in 4L and it wouldn't shift back out into N or 4H!! I solved the problem by snapping e-clips around the shaft to keep it lifted up and the inner lever engaged with the shift fork, avoiding the risk of having the lever assembly drop down into inside the case housing if I would have removed the outer lever to add washers...

Excellent job on the rebuild by the way...and well documented...some lucky folks will benefit from your effort!

 

[norsk]

ah

I am familiar with the issue of "losing" the shaft into the case if the bolt is released. Didn't know about the up/down slack issue. Will look for a properly sized e-clip and slide it on.

thanks for the thanks. My Droid camera isn't the best, but it works for me.

I have added links to other transfer case rebuild threads I had found, with other points of view. Those links are in the post #1 of this thread and in the post starting the TC rebuild, #298. If I do something, I like to leave breadcrumbs about where I went, how I got there and how to get out. This thread helps me log all of that for myself and others.

I discovered some things that you just have to know and the FSM doesn't point out. Hence these threads can be of great benefit for the next guys.

BTW, what size e-clip did you use?

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Up coming will be the installation of the output rear bearing carrier. I found at the link https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/transfer-assembly-with-pictures.487813/page-3#post-6683415 concerning setting the bearing PRELOAD setting.

-quote-
Great stuff!

Thanks, Seth for starting this thread and for the great pics. This is turning into a real resource. Maybe warrant a sticky at some point.

My question is on setting the preload on the TC output shaft. My case is back together thanks to some parts from Georg and this is where I am at. Here is what I gather from the manual:

1. Install rear bearing carrier WITH NO GASKET.
2. Torque barrier bolts to 25ftlbs.
3. Install nut on TC output shaft and set torque wrench to about 20 inch pounds. If it clicks there is too much preload and a shim change may be in order. FSM says that a going down one shim size will reduce preload by 10 inch pounds.

After you get this set you then install the rear bearing carrier with the gasket, put thread sealer on the six bolts and torque.

Seth, is this what you did?

Anyone else feel free to chime in.
-endquote-

another item:

-quote-
There is a difference between a torque meter and a torque wrench. Torque meter is similar to the old style bar indicator torque wrench and it is what is used by the manual. Early manual I have calls it a spring scale and my FJ62 manual calls it a torque meter.

You are trying to measure the constant load on the bearing which is what the torque meter is meant to do. I don't think you can accurately set the preload with a clicker torque wrench... Anybody else?

Tony
-endquote-

 

[Slow Left]

BTW, what size e-clip did you use?

5/8" e-clip will snap on around the shaft (my t-case was from a 1981 FJ60...assuming it is the same). I ended up using 3 to take up enough space...but from one of your pictures above, it looks like you already have a washer on there, so might not need it...

 

[Slow Left]

With respect to the output bearing preload, I just reused the same shim that I took out, installed the lot of it (including gasket, but with no gasket maker), measured the preload as best I could with what you call a 'torque meter', decided it was within spec and called it good. Then removed a bolt at a time and put the sealer on each bolt and reinstalled one at a time.

Don't know that that helps you reduce the uncertainty all that much, but there it is.

 

[norsk]

With respect to the output bearing preload, I just reused the same shim that I took out, installed the lot of it (including gasket, but with no gasket maker), measured the preload as best I could with what you call a 'torque meter', decided it was within spec and called it good. Then removed a bolt at a time and put the sealer on each bolt and reinstalled one at a time.

Don't know that that helps you reduce the uncertainty all that much, but there it is.

sounds good. I was planning on just reusing what is installed. Can't find a good inexpensive in-lb torque meter on ebay anyway

 

[norsk]

Continuing this issue of setting the pre-load tension on the output shaft. The procedure from the FSM is listed above, but finding an inexpensive inch-lb torque beam type wrench is difficult.

I have found SK 74006 0-60 in-lb scale. There are others that are 0-600 scale but that is too big for this need

I found a couple sources for the SK 74006,
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/sk-...p-24427.aspx?gclid=CMn0jNbx9L4CFYJaMgodsFMAHw
But it is $51 + $10 SH

another
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SK-Tools-74...1118722936&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
for $60 free shipping (right)

I don't see another option, than just putting it back together and don't measure the preload, and assume it is what it was before I took it apart.
$60 for one tool for mostly one use, though if I had paid someone to do the rebuilt it would be another $600+ for labor and their tools


ALSO

needed to order a new 12MMx1.25x 170mm long bolt (PN 90119-12235), as I had one with a stripped set of threads at the tip and won't screw in. Ordered locally from the TOY dealer for $7 + tax, no shipping charge. Should be in next monday.

Some part numbers for bolts and others can be found at https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/split-case-rebuild.188968/page-3#post-2997698


dougbert

 

[norsk]

Just won a 0-100 in-lb wrench on eBay for $30. Problem solved.

Dougbert