dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much?

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by norsk, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains

    This has turned into a whole vehicle build thread now and not just an engine swap. So I have logged work I have done on the rig, issues, solutions and links to other resources, as well as my parts costs, etc.

    From May 2008 to Dec 2012 (when the 2F died), usage activities for this rig have been: for DD, a couple trips to Canyonlands Utah, camping up in the mountains and the like.
    Hauling stuff and for the ride. Love a manual tranny

    FUTURE uses (once I get it back together again - is that possible?): Longer trips in the western US background, mostly Utah

    Since I am an old software geek (same age as Bill Gates, but much poorer) and engineer things, I have planned the project, researched it and then modified it over time as reality comes between the eyes or new options come to light. So I might have too much detail, but this is my thread. Deal with it.

    Suggestions and criticisms are welcome to be considered. (And I have considered many and changed my plan several times from such)

    THREAD's TABLE OF CONTENTS - links to various topics of the thread/build - hope this is useful

    Goal, Table of Contents and prior history of what I did
    Powertrain bill of goods, parts to get
    Reference links and TODO Task List
    Original post (2011) on engine rebuild
    Discussion on engine design
    Block at machine stop
    Block BACK from machine stop
    Painted block
    Day I lost the 2F
    Stripping down the 2F
    350 CAM and chain installed
    2F gets pulled
    Tranny and TC are out
    Cleaned engine bay
    NV4500 vs Ranger Overdrive adapter discussion
    Front fenders, et al off , BODY LIFT starts
    Front frame getting cleaned and painted
    Roof RUST FOUND, headliner removal
    Underbody cleaning and Rust Bullet
    Moulding anchors search
    Rear C channel clean up (lots of work to do this)
    Underbody painting w/Rust Bullet
    Fenders and et al, sandblasted
    Fenders and et al, painted
    More engine work
    Took off doors and began renewal on them
    Tail hatch work
    Window regulators
    ZEP 505 Cleanser is great
    More underbody painting
    30mm floor plugs problem and a source found
    2nd head order, and fan discussion
    V belt vs single belt discussion
    More engine parts installed
    Axle cleaning and painting
    power steering
    Mechanical fan issues with Ranger adapter
    Painted engine bay, front axle and cowl rust spots
    Zinc plating on old bolts/nuts
    Start Transfercase rebuild with kit
    Tool for measuring TC preload in-lbs
    Start of Front axle rebuild
    Rebuilding the AISIN locking hub
    Start of Ranger OD installed (NOTE: MEASURE the tranny input bearing prior to ordering)
    Installed flywheel on engine
    Finished left front axle/knuckle rebuild
    Finished Ranger install with tranny and transfercase
    Exhaust system discussion 2.5 inch from headers to Y, then 3 inch all the way out
    What I learned on rear drum parts kits READ THIS if you doing your rear brakes
    Putting powertrain together and into engine bay
    Firewall wiring upgrade
    Revisit of spark plug wires and Ram Horn manifolds


    I acquired the rig in May 2008 for $2500. 189,000 miles on it.
    I put 49,000 miles on it until the engine went out, Dec 2012 (seen later on this thread)

    After buying it, it Immediately needed:

    2F Specific mods/fixes (things that no longer apply since the 2F is now GONE):
    New clutch pressure plate, disc, throwout bear, etc
    New oil (old oil was very lumpy) and filter, changed again in 500 miles for flushing of bad oil
    New coolant (Moab Red did NOT seem right color for coolant) after a BIG flush
    (those last 2 items and others hints, indicated to me that PO's did NOT take care of the rig.
    I believe that is why the engine block later died at 238k miles)
    New coolant hoses throughout

    Body specific mods/fixes that outlast the 2F engine = they are still on the rig:

    rear pinon bearing broke, and replaced
    Had rear axle rebuilt with new bearings and seals (from Kurt at
    Front pinon bearing replace
    New OME shocks
    New steering stablizer

    Over the next several years I did or bought the following:

    2F Specific mods/fixes (things that no longer apply since the 2F is now GONE):

    New water pump.
    New thermostat and gaskets
    new vac lines
    Removed air pump and installed JimC's idler pulley
    JimC Dizzy rework a used 2nd dizzy I sent him.
    Bought a 2nd head, had it rebuilt with SS valves (as per JimC's counsel), oil galley, rocker arm serviced and swapped in on a saturday
    6-to-1 header
    New muffler
    Trollhole carb (bought a second for a spare)
    Radiator shroud 2 piece mod

    Body/frame specific mods/fixes that outlast the engine:

    New aftermarket radiator.
    OME EMU Lift
    Saginaw PS installed
    New Clutch MC and Slave
    Painted the top of the hood - it REALLY needed it, as it was peeling
    Refreshed the Herculiner that some PO put on the sides.
    Steering gear box reworked at Texas Steering
    New rebuilt brake booster
    New brake MC and flush
    New pads in front and brakes in rear
    200 Amp Mean Green Alternator
    Fixed driver footwell rust rot
    Cruiser C-r-a-p installed on floor, got quieter
    ARB Rear Air-Locker
    Install FJ62 4.11 third members, front and rear
    Cleaned up rear cargo area, rear seat, and new rear cargo carpet
    Fab'ed my new headlight harness (now have 14.4 volts at lights instead of 8.6v)
    Fog lights
    Off road lights on roof
    Improved electrical system, better wires, grounding, etc.
    Had front knuckles rebuilt, new bearings and seals
    Added to the A pillar, a 4 gauge strip. Physical Water temp gauge, Vac gauge, Fuel mixture. Future Oil pressure
    Installed HAM radio

    Bunch of other stuff which I forget what I did.

    As can be seen, I didn't know much about Cruisers back then because of how much repair I had to do it BUT.....

    I view that as ALL TUITION well spent for my education of LandCruisers

    Then I lost the 2F, I sold all the "good" rebuilt/new parts from that engine to help fund the SBC

    While it is down, I miss it terribly. BUT I am having fun rebuilding it. Not too fancy car looks,
    but to utilitarian function - I drive through A LOT of scrub oak, which scratched the old paint job something terrible, so I extended the old Herculiner from 1/3 the way up to all the way up to the windows. It protects so much better.

    I want a off road 4x4 truck that can take the work, and keep running for some time.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014 at 10:47 AM
  2. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains

    Pic of completed engine, followed by Parts list and sources

    rebuilt engine.jpg

    Updated: 15 September 2014

    Free: 1973 4-bolt main 350 block.
    Manufactured: 10 Aug 1973

    Reusing: block, crank, rods, carb and flywheel. Thats all that will be original.
    All other parts will be purchased new, with a few used.

    $1500: Machine costs. Went with a 350ci (5.7L) target with .060" over for a 360ci (5.9L) engine.

    Balanced throughout. Bore aligned with torque plate in place.

    $1384: Ranger Overdrive
    $520 Head: GM Bowtie small runner vortecs Performance/809/25534421/10002/-1
    $515: GM Bowtie head, Free shipping
    $316: 16 - Comp Cams 1617-1 Self-Aligning Ultra Pro Mangnum Roller Rockers
    $305: Comp Cams roller cam lifters - (used for a Dyno Test)
    $277: MSD Chevy 8360 Ready-to-Run Dizzy ($50 off with coupon)
    $275: Comp Cams 12-409-8 Extreme 4x4 Retro Hyd roller CAM
    $250: Rebuild kit for Transfer Case - rebuild it myself
    $242: Comp Cams 310 3-piece Timing Cover, can adjust/change CAM without distubing oil pan. Also more solid for cam thrust button
    $231: Centerforce II Pressure Plate 11 inch CFT165552
    $200: Rebuild kit for QuadraJet carb
    $190: Harmonic balancer
    $155: Intake: Profession Products 52007- vortec intake $155
    $140: 2 Proform MLS head gaskets
    $128: Pushrods Cams/249/7955-16/10002/-1
    $110: Block hugger headers 1.5" primaries to 2" collector
    $105: GM Clutch Disk 10 spline 383735, 11 inch disc, 1-1/8 inch dia shaft
    $105: composite dizzy gear Cams/249/12200/10002/-1?CAPCID=32103742751&cadevice=c&gclid=CIXl_cK9mLsCFYUWMgodf3cAmA&CA_6C15C=230006180000140600
    $99: Air intake plenum for carb
    $88: 3HP Starter
    $85: Chevy Bellhousing 460486 cast number, ebay
    $80: TC linkage bushings and misc parts. Old is VERY loose and bushings are missing, AND Shipping from SOR. Very tight now.
    $79: ARP Head bolts
    $77: MSD plug wires
    $75: rear tranny mount - the old one is almost 30 years old #EGM61030R
    $75: Stewart Stage 2 23113 Water Pump
    $69: Valve Covers
    $66: Spectre 9831 Inline airbox with filter
    $65: Chevy 7 bladed fan and fan clutch from ebay USED
    $55: Fel Pro valve cover gaskets 1628
    $54: or Spark plug boot sleeve heat protector
    $45: ATP Part # ZA104 More Info {#3765372} Category: Clutch Fork
    (Alternate: Fork #15687296 1960-1972 Apache Custom Blazer $70)
    $42: PS Bracket
    $42: Vortec Intake Manifold gaskets - I should have just gotten instead of the kit below of which I only used the intake, and can't use the other gaskets as they are for the Vortec engine
    (I bought the wrong kit - MS98000T and on valve cover gasket
    $42: Clutch release bearing
    $40.50: I use the gaskets that came with the headers instead of these Exhaust gaskets whirch are the D Shape and it did't look right - Vortec Fel-Pro 1470
    $40: MSD Blaster 2 coil 8202 Free shipping
    $40: slave cylinder bracket
    $36: New Tach to replace OEM install
    $35: ALT Bracket
    $31: Flywheel cover
    $30: Grommets for valve cover, PVC
    $28: Carter M6626 Fuel Pump - 3 line: draw, to carb and return
    $25: Pilot Bushing
    $25: Throttle cable
    $25: New metric bolts for tranny crossmember to bolt to frame
    $23: (found out 2 not needed) 3 Heater hose nipples to fit into intake manifold
    $18: 90 degree hose nipples to route around back of dizzy to heater
    $20: Comp Cams 7702-1 Pushrod length checker
    $20: Clutch fork Boot
    $20:8 AC Delco R44LTS Spark plugs
    $19: Steward 180 degree hi-flow thermostat
    $18: (not needed-went mechanical) 2 FAN connectors, $7 each
    $15: water neck/thermostate housing
    $15: New rubber fuel lines
    $15: Spectre 4" Coupler
    $14: Chrome Fuel pump plate and bolts
    $14: Block-Bell housing bolts
    $13: Comp Cams 4607 Bronze Fuel pump pushrod
    $13: ARP Pressure Plate HP Bolts From Jegs ARP-130-2201
    $12: Comp Cams Roller Button
    $10: One valve cover gasket Fel-pro VS50293R
    $5: ARP 234-1001 ARP Cam Bolts
    $3: Release bearing collar from TLC release bearing (2)

    Total $8696 For Power Train rebuild

    Installation: $500


    $1400: Rear bumper and swing outs for tire, gas cans and hi-jack
    $1200+: 190 liter/50 gallon fuel tank
    $950: ARB Front bummer
    $600: Sliders
    $300: GPS Speedometer
    $295: New QUAD Gauge display with sensors,-Water-Temp,-Fuel-Level,-Volts
    $200: MSD 6AL #6425 6425&_sacat=0&_from=R40
    $175: Front U bolt flip-kits
    $175: Rear U bolt flip-kits
    $78: Titanium Exhaust Pipe Wrap
    $34: SPARE HRP Inline Air Filter 2 3 13 1147708&searchTerm=HPR9831


    BOUGHT - $151: New front axle rebuild kit: seals, gaskets, bearings, new nuts, Marlin inner seals, etc from Cruiser
    BOUGHT -$66: 2 @ $24 each + $22 SH, New front flexible stainless steel brake lines
    BOUGHT -$65: Raybestos RC10376 Left Caliper
    BOUGHT -$65: Raybestos RC10375 Right Caliper
    BOUGHT -$57: Beck Arnley Drum
    BOUGHT -$57: Beck Arnley Drum
    BOUGHT -$49: Dust plate eliminator, bolts, washers, shipping
    BOUGHT: -$43: Parking brake cables and hold down pins from SOR
    BOUGHT -$39: Left Disc Rotor
    BOUGHT -$39: Right Disc Roter
    BOUGHT and ordered Shoes $38:
    BOUGHT - $36: Right rear self adjuster kit Cruiser&vi=1276556&ck=Search_brake_01312_1276556_3664&keyword=brake&pt=01312&ppt=C0064
    BOUGHT - $34: Left rear self adjuster kit Cruiser&vi=1276556&ck=Search_brake_01312_1276556_3664&keyword=brake&pt=01312&ppt=C0064

    BOUGHT -$28: NAPA 38881 brake line (online: $8 shipping)
    BOUGHT -$20: NAPA 38881 brake line
    BOUGHT -$15: New rear brake wheel cylinder
    BOUGHT -$15: New rear brake wheel cylinder
    BOUGHT - $16: Rear brake kit Brake Hardware Kit/01271/C0064.oap?keyword=brake&year=1986&make=Toyota&model=Land+Cruiser&vi=1276556

    Brakes Total: $828


    BOUGHT - $50: Hella Horns
    BOUGHT - $5: Chrome dipstick

    Rear side window rubber seals Toyota Part # 62741-90A01 (x2)

    Radiator rubber:

    $250: GPS locator
    $65: GPS locator
    Both have re-occuring fees

    AUX Relay panel:


    2.50 Inch Exhaust parts:

    BOUGHT: $44: 2.00 inch primary/2.50 inch outlet - Y-Pipe Flowmaster Y200250
    $102: Flowmaster 942550 50 Delta Flow Muffler - 2.50 Center IN / 2.50 Center OUT - Moderate Sound

    $300 installation


    Pro Comm 16"x8" 6x5.5 BS 2.5
    Part # 97-6883R2.5
    MSRP $86 6-8 weeks build time

    Buy from retailers (4WheelParts, SummitRacing, etc)

    Pro Comm 17"x9" 6x5.5 BS 3.50
    Part # PCW98-7983S3.5
    MSRP $98

    ROOF RACK mount


    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014 at 3:05 PM
  3. orangefj45


    it's not HP or torque we're super concerned with, it's "shock" or "impact" loads. if the wheels ( front or rear ) loose traction and then hook up again, you can and will break stuff. like drivelines, u-joints, pinions, axle shafts,......but even that's not so common.
    the components in your cruiser can put up with the powerplant you plan on running them with just fine. it's not like you'll be floored at all times, and i doubt you'll be seeing more than 3k RPMs a whole lot.

    fwiw, i built a 60 with a supercharged vortec 5.3 for a customer and fellow mudder. it's been on the road ( and offraod ) for a while now with no issues.

    let your brain make the decisions, not your right foot.

  4. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains

    Various Spark Plugs For Vortec Heads:

    5613611 R44LTS, set of 8
    5614210 MR43LTS, set of 8
    25164641 #3, Rapid Fire style, set of 8
    P526S Accel U-Groove “SHORTY” Double Platinum Header Plugs approximately 3/16" shorter then R44LTS plugs, set of 8
    RS12YC Champion
    Autolite 104 or 26
    ACCEL 516
    Bosch HR10B or HR10BX, HR9DC

    Oil filter: WIX 51794 (PurePro PH832)
    Air filter: Spectre #865-HPR9831 HRP Inline Air Filter
    ALT V Belt: Gates 7485
    PS V Belt:
    AC V Belt:

    PARTS - entry from IH8MUD

    There is a WAY easier way to find parts availability than scrolling through this awesome thread.
    Just go HERE and enter your part number in the search box. If a part is discontinued, you will see it. They have always been accurate for parts availability for me... although it is doubtful that their database would be 100% up-to-date perfect.

    Don't know the part number?
    Just go HERE and find it in the drawings.
    (Numbers on Toyota drawings, except typically for bolts, nuts and washers are called "PNC" numbers. PNC numbers reference the 10 digit part number that you are looking for.. at this site the part numbers are at the far right of the page).

    Radiator Insulator:


    Fan thread:

    Bought used chevy 7 bladed fan with clutch off eby for $65
    Mechanical Fan

    $113: fan clutch
    $90: Seven bladed fan #790-2030


    $114: Electric fan controller See Better price on EBAY
    $17: Pelican case for FAN Controller

    $101: Contour FAN
    (FAN Install threads:


    $0: Currently own Lincoln Mark VIII 19" dual speed electric fan, just need to make mount/shroud for it

    Rim Performance Products/555/671134/10002/-1



    28 Feb 2014

    Needed a place to put links to various solutions to common problems in restoring a LC. So In this section of this first post
    I am putting links as I find them to problems I encounter OR will encounter as the project proceeds. That way I KNOW where the links are instead of doing searches, and others can find the same solutions if they encounter them

    Weatherpack connectors

    Rusty cowl in front of wind shield
    An example of what was done

    Fuel tank and part numbers for misc around it

    Info on a FI Vortec install on EVAP system
    won't apply to my carb, but good info

    Other good rebuild threads found or pointed to:

    Interior threads

    ABS Panels for doors/rear:

    window/regulator removal:

    H55 5 speed thread:

    Half doors - cool

    Removable hinges:

    portable air compressor:

    windshield install

    kevinmrowland said: ?
    I ask since I've done a half dozen or so of them with that strip, and it's a pain, but as long as it's slick it slips into place.
    The tightness is a plus in my book, it is after all the expander strip and in that case tighter is better. I've always found much worse rust under the aftermarket window gaskets that do not have the slot for the expander strips as compared to the OE style expanded ones.

    He mentioned exactly that issue, but said it was because of improper installation, not because there's anything different with the aftermarket seal. If fact, if someone is going to try a home-installation, it's the only way to go. I held them side by side (sorry, no pic) and in fact the Precision gasket looked beefier. Had I not already bought the Toyota gasket, I would have gone aftermarket.

    Dirk said the step most places leave out (and it's in the FSM procedure) and always left out by the installer-comes-to-you guys because of the time it takes, is the final Urethane sealant step between the glass and gasket lip, not just the application between the gasket and window frame. It did take a bit of time for that final step and subsequent clean up, but he said it was absolutely necessary for a leak-free install. He also showed me it had not been done on the window he just removed from my rig... Thus the rust, and fu#!*ng water on the driver's floor boards I used to get. :crybaby:

    MUD member and FJ60 owner, and one-time in the auto-glass business "Tinker " mentions the same thing over and over in the various other windshield threads he's posted. In my first post, here, I link to another thread where Tinker affirms this.

    Did I mention I love my new windshield? The world is open, again :p

    Did anyone say I need new paint ??

    TRANSFER CASE LINKS’s-h55-build-thread…-sbc-fj40.156735/page-2


    With a need to cover all the things that need to be done to complete this rig, I decided to put the tasks I know about now, down on this page to provide me a "honey do this" list (Honey being the rig).

    DONE: 22 March 2014 - Cut and remove inner C channel on left rear frame, and paint
    DONE: Install new engine head
    DONE: Install rockers and set rocker preload
    DONE: Install manifold
    DONE: Install valve covers
    DONE: 22 march 2014 - Clean and paint drive lines
    DONE: 29 march 2014 - de-rust, clean, prime and paint the front axle
    DONE: 29 march 2014 - de-rust, clean, prime and paint the steer cross arms
    DONE: 29 march 2014 - clean and paint the gas tank straps
    DONE: 29 march 2014 - Remove windshield
    DONE: 29 march 2014 Paint firewall
    DONE: 12 april 2014 - put in a better ground system in the rear underbody and encase wires in a loom
    DONE: 12 april 2014 - Re-install all 4 shocks
    DONE: 12 april 2014 - Re-install front sway bar
    DONE: 20 april 2014 - Fab fuel line between pump and carb win -6 AN fittings and fuel pressure gauge
    DONE: 21 april 2014 - bought clutch disc
    DONE: 10 May 2014 - Re-install gas tank and hook up all fuel hoses, evap hoses, etc
    DONE: 20 May 2014 - Buy TC rebuilt kit
    DONE: 31 May 2014 - Re-install the heat shield above the exhaust system area
    DONE: 2 June 2014- drill out broken bolts on the frame, especially the ones for the tranny cross mount bar
    DONE: 2 June 2014 - chase all the threads on the frame, for rust and paint residue
    DONE: 2 June 2014 - Install rear fuel fill hose protector shield
    DONE: 3 June 2014 - ran rear diff breather line to front of vehicle
    DONE: 3 June 2014 - put air locker air line inside protective line and ran along frame to front
    DONE: 18 June 2014 - Buy clutch pressure plate,
    DONE: 18 June 2014 - Rebuild TC
    DONE: 19 June 2014 - Replace tire lug bolts on the left front due to broken lug
    DONE: 22 July 2014 - Buy Ranger Splitter - get correct measurements
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 - Renew left front brakes: New rotor, caliper, pads, pins, new hose
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 - Move engine from engine stand connected from rear to leg based stand
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 -Install flywheel
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 - Chase rust under cowl
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 - Connect Ranger to tranny and TC
    DONE: 16 Aug 2014 - remove rest of head liner
    DONE: 18 Aug 2014 - Paint under cowling with Eastwood Internal frame anti-rust
    DONE: 23 Aug 2014 - Paint under cowling with Zero Rust as primer,
    DONE: 25 Aug 2014 - Install clutch parts on engine
    DONE: 30 Aug 2014 - Paint under cowling with Rust Bullet Shell Black as covering
    DONE: 30 Aug 2014 - Renew right front brakes: New rotor, caliper, pads, pins, new hose
    DONE: 6 Sep 2014 - Move engine to barn
    DONE: 6 Sep 2014 - Renew right rear brake: New drum, cylinder, springs, etc, etc
    DONE: 13 Sep 2014 - Renew left rear brake: New drum, cylinder, springs, etc, etc
    DONE: 15 Sep 2014 - Put on new Aluminum oil pan and 1 piece FelPro rubber PermaDryPlus gasket
    DONE: 16 Sep 2014 - Connect Engine to Ranger, tranny and TC
    DONE: 17-18 Sep 2014 - Install power train into rig and have front engine mounts fab'd
    DONE: 29 Sept 2014 - re-install carb
    DONE: 29 Sept 2014 - re-install fuel line from pump to carb
    DONE: 2 Oct 2014 - Painted final coat on new mounts and frame rails
    DONE: 2 Oct 2014 - Installed driver's side Ram Horn exhaust manifold
    DONE: 3 Oct 2014 - install clutch slave
    DONE: 3 Oct 2014 - Install steering shaft heat shield
    DONE: 4 Oct 2014 - hook up hydraulic line to clutch slave\
    DONE: 4 Oct 2014 - Installed short front brake line on passenger side
    DONE: 6 Oct 2014 - Install long front brake line
    DONE: 8 Oct 2014 - Mount coil
    DONE: 9 Oct 2014 - Wire up OEM Lines: Oil lead, TACH lead and IGN lead, in a loom
    DONE: 9 Oct 2014 - Wire up dizzy connector and TACH connector
    DONE: 15 Oct 2014 - Install flywheel shield
    DONE: 15 Oct 2014 - Install starter
    DONE: 15 Oct 2014 - Starter START wire
    DONE: 15 Oct 2014 - installed alternator
    DONE: 16 Oct 2014 - wire up electric choke on carb
    DONE: 17 Oct 2014 - gap (0.040) and install spark plugs
    DONE: 17 Oct 2014 - install passenger side exhaust manifold
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - drained and refilled transmission with gear oil
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - filled transfercase with gear oil
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - install OEM Temp wire to OEM sending unit
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - belt on alternator 49.0 inches, tad too long, but works fine. Get a 48.5
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - got switched power to alternator
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - Found bracket for front of alternator and got 10mm X 1.50 bolts for lock down and ground tap
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - install power steering pump - new bracket for lower driver's side
    DONE: 18 Oct 2014 - Installed power steering fluid line from pump to steering box, with more heat insulator
    DONE: 20 Oct 2014 - Installed heater hose with clean out at highest point for burping
    DONE: 20 Oct 2014 - lube all lube points
    DONE: 20 Oct 2014 - install drivelines
    DONE: 20 Oct 2014 - Heightened rear diff breather line


    install spark plug wires with retainers
    WIRING misc leads
    put loom on wires
    install radiator support panel
    install fenders
    install radiator
    front end re-assembled
    install battery trays
    cut support panel to allow removal of AC lines without having to disconnect them
    determine which fan we can use
    install head lights
    install new horns
    install new hydraulic hood mounts in fenders
    install reverse lines
    install 4x4 lines

    fill engine with break-in oil
    fill Ranger with regular oil and drive for 30 minutes for break in, then fill with its special gear oil

    header wrap on driver's side exhaust manifold, a section of it near PS
    install fuel line plus filter and return line
    install new SunPro tach in dashboard
    wire up tach to tach line
    wire up alternator to positive
    build up relay box and positive and negative contact points
    find or build new ground cables
    get belt on PS
    connect vac lines

    Fab breather line to front diff
    Fab breather line to Ranger
    Fab breather line to transfercase
    Install transfercase shifter
    Install transmissing shifter

    renew Front Driver side door
    renew Rear Driver side door
    renew Rear Passenger side door

    cut access hole in tail gate
    install and wire tail hatch with LED light
    finish painting tail gate inside and out and tail hatch
    Install renewed tail hatch by moving all parts to the new one

    Fab exhaust system

    New door locks
    New ignition lock
    New hatch lock
    kill switch

    Fix rust HOLES in roof
    Fix rust on cowl
    new windshield
    get new cargo window rubber, clean and tint windows and then mount them
    Eastwood Internal Frame paint onto other roof areas, Zero Rust coating
    Clean inside of roof
    Rear quarter panels fixes, cut for rear bumper
    Sound proof inside roof
    Thermo-protect inside roof
    paint Monstaliner inside roof

    Monstaliner on top of roof, and upper sides
    Monstaliner on cowl
    Monstaliner on tailgate
    Monstaliner on hatch
    Rear Bumper fab with 2" receiver
    Front Bumper buy ARB
    Winch on front bumper

    Tint windows

    **************************************** Original post *************************

    Ok, it is time to ask some questions on a 350 swap for my fj60.

    I have been researching building my own engine from a donor block for some time. I have wanted to do this since I was a teenager, and I am NOT getting younger. So I have been: Reading, asking and calculating.

    I am starting with a 1983 chev truck 4-bolt main block, of which I will reuse the block and the Quadrajet carb (which I am rebuilding). Everything else will be bought new. My first choice is a 383 with 4.040 bore (block is already at 4.030). Then my second choice is just the 350 at 4.040 bore.

    My goal is to build a torquer with good low to mid torgue and low RPM target. I don't want to run the rig above 85 (lol). I have also purchased the Dyno Sim5 computer program to compare different configurations. This will go into my FJ60 with a NV4500 tranny, NP241 TC and a 14 bolt rear diff, all like lehiguy's rig.

    I am choosing the following parts:

    new version of GM Bowtie Vortec heads, small runners
    Edelbrock Vortec spread bore intake
    roller cam CompCams x4270HR (220/224 @.050) 111LSA .474 lift

    The Sim5 gives the following - one for the 383 and one for the 350 - numbers:

    TQ 493 @ 2500 sea level (403 @ 2500 5500ft)
    HP 383 @ 5000 sea level (313 @ 5000 5500ft)

    TQ 522 @ 2000 sea level (426 @ 2000 5500 ft)
    HP 373 @ 4500 sea level (304 @ 4500 5500 ft)

    Given these are just sims, they do provide relative comparisons.

    So my question becomes: How much torque is too much for a FJ60?

    Pics below is the dirty block in the back of the 60 on the way to the machinist. My plan is to have it worked over the next 4-5 months (Scott at Provo Utah's Charlies, will work on it in idle time and I will pay over that duration).

    UPDATE: It took 12 months

    thought to at least post a pic of the rig itself. The hood is the first part to be cleaned up and painted. Other portions will be painted - rear hatch is in process.


    pic is the donor motor before I tore it down



    Quick peek: After engine had been rebuilt and new parts added:

    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014 at 1:48 PM
  5. Elbert

    Elbert SILVER Star

    AL, USA
    I would go for the most torque you can make and run on regular pump gas, and that would get you to the 383 setup I'm sure. High torque at low rpm is the best route for trucks/offroad in my view. I don't think there are that many intake solutions with using the vortec heads and I assume the intake you are referring to is a dual plane type. The vortec heads have a different bolt pattern where the intake bolts down to the cylinder heads than the older conventional 5.7 heads. The Dart II iron eagle heads are a good alternative if you were considering other options.
  6. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains
    That has been my base thought, which why I studied the 383 type of engine. As for the intake, it is an Edelbrock Performer for spreadbore

    The cheaper base unit is at

    The more shiny one is at Edelbrock 21161 Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds for Chevy

    The original Vortec heads are a great head set and I have studied their characteristics. GMPP has come out an after market Vortec head that addresses some of the short coming of the original, thicker deck, improved exhaust, takes upto .530 valve lift, better springs. For an iron head, the GM engineers has done a great job. One can get an original Vortec head from for around $400 that has good valve lift, but these new GM heads can be had for $520 vis Jegs.

    Thanks for pointers

    Exactly, I wasn't trying to reach high numbers. I just studied and put together components that leaned toward low end torque instead of high end HP (high end HP is what all the books stress on building up a SBC, mag articles as well). After I had my build plan laid out, that is when I bought the software sim to plug in things and see what came out (also I found that every person I asked had different opinions on things and had no "normalized" foundation to start with).

    Then I put the numbers in the Sim and I saw bigger numbers than I expected with TQ. That lead to posting this question due to the "breakage" factor as you mentioned. I started with the 383 and then seeing its numbers, worked up the 350 with good, but lower numbers to possibly reduce those "shocks".

    With my 2F now, when I drive 65, my RPMs are 3000 and my speedo is spot on, with 4.11 gears and 31x10.50 tires. I will be going to 33x12.50 and the 5th overdrive of the NV4500, which will bring down the RPMs on the road. And as you indicate, low RPMs when off road.


    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014 at 1:49 PM
  7. ntsqd

    ntsqd technerd

    Upper So. CA
    What is your current cruising RPM? Shoot for getting your peak torque at that RPM as that will offer the best mileage. Not sure if the book goes into Brake Specific Fuel Consumption or not, but BSFC quantifies (fuel consumed per HP) and this always happens at peak torque. By running at, or just slightly under, peak torque you're operating at max efficiency for that engine combo.

    Have you considered the GMPP replacement aluminum Corvette heads? Those will let you run a bit more comp ratio while keeping to a small, high velocity intake port.
  8. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains

    At 65 MPH I am doing 3000 RPM at the moment.

    With the future overdrive, which I remember is around a .8 over factor, would put it around 2400 RPM plus going to a 33 size tire on 4.11 gears, I say 2200 to 2600 RPM target range, which matches with the above TQ numbers

    as to the Corvette Alum heads, I think you are referring to the Fast Burn: below is what I found on a personal sale (they are more expensive for sure from retail);

    Default FS-GMPP Aluminum Vortec Fast Burn Heads, Cam, Lifters, Rockers, more... BRAND NEW
    I have the following absolutely BRAND NEW GM Performance Parts from a NEW ZZ383..

    Heads- GM part #12464298 (this number superseded #12367712, which is stamped on the heads) Fast Burn Vortec aluminum.
    210cc Intake Ports
    62cc Combustion Chambers
    2.000'' Int/1.550'' Exh Valves
    -This head is a bolt-on 30 hp increase when used on GM's ZZ4 crate engine (according to GMPP)
    -Sells for $650 EACH new

    + Shipping

    [he lists other parts he is selling]

    at his price, they would match the same price as the Iron GM vortecs I am looking at.

    Here is a jegs listing for them at retail:

    They are a big port runner at 210cc, which more for HP and not Torque


    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  9. Elbert

    Elbert SILVER Star

    AL, USA

    are you sure that intake you linked to bolts down to a 5.7 vortec cylinder head? Are you aware of the differences between the vortec heads (like are stock on a 1999-97 GM truck) vs. the older school 5.7 cylinder heads? i'm referring to the bolt pattern and number of bolts used to mate the intake manifold with the cylinder head.

    At one time the only 4 barrel intake for the 5.7 vortec head was one offered by GM / GMPP.

    make sure you understand the differences before jumping off into that. I think the 5.7 vortec heads are good for a mild engine which is what you would want in the off-road torque business but as I noted the intake selection for 4 barrel carb use was and maybe still is limited. There are some people who drill the intake manifolds...i'm not one of them.

    notice the number of bolts used to fasten the intake to the cylinder head.
  10. Kurtis


    750 lbs of torque or more is to much. Anything less that that is good.
  11. RAMZ


    Bakersfield CA.
    This is good imfo. :cool: keep it coming.

  12. Bret


    On a 383 with small Dart heads I get a little over 400 ft/lbs by the time I hit 2k rpm, it peaks at around 330hp and 450 ft/lb but runs out of air by the time you hit 5k. That is enough to grenade pinions, driveshafts, hubs etc. All with some shock loading as someone mentioned earlier.

    That is enough to easily pass trucks on the interstate with authority and pull most any pass fast enough to get arrested. Makes chugging along at idle easy as well. Welcome to the dark side!

    sorry, this is in a 40, should apply to 60 too.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  13. Elbert

    Elbert SILVER Star

    AL, USA
    GM Performance 12366573 - GM Performance Vortec Dual Plane Intake Manifolds - Overview -

    I would have bought the above intake if I had gone with a carb for fuel on a 5.7 Vortec.. THere may be other manifolds out now (5.7 vortec + carb)...but this was one choice for a while or may be one of the few choices today. I've not looked at the choices for some time, since I jumped into fuel injection.

    I doubt the issue will be too much torque from a small block.... in fact I would not go crazy chasing that dream on a stock type truck. Remember why folks run fuel injection....for offroad the truck never runs out of fuel due to engine angle and make some good power and reasonable fuel milage. With a carb you certainly can go crazy with modifications.... but I would not...a lot better to have a quasi stock setup thats dependable and less prone to maintence issues.
  14. Edelbrock makes a very nice dual plane manifold specific to Vortec heads. I have been using one for the past ten years. It currently sports a home made (ok, red neck) TBI adapter plate and big block throttle body.

    Norsk, I think you may find more usuable torque and certainly better economy with a cam that has no more than 212 degrees at .050" The larger cams make more torque, but not really the type of power you can hook up the a 5000# trailer and be happy. They're great for hot rods, but not always for trucks. The overlap is very effective for cylinder charging at low RPM, but you pay a penalty with mileage and heavily loaded operation. The overlap is not good for use with FI, which as I recall, you plan on doing sooner or later. The unburned fuel that makes it out the pipes due to the overlap tells the FI to go leaner which is really doesn't need to do in that case. Go with a roller cam and go with some good lift, moderate duration. Just my random thoughts...
  15. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains
    The link I gave was for the "shiny" version, the standard version is at Edelbrock 2116 Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds for Chevy

    and yes it is a Vortec manifold with 4 bolts each side, and am aware of the differences, and it is a spreadbore. I found it after multiple searches.

  16. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains
    that gives me a limit, which I don't want to approach. Once over 500 hp, the entire bottom end would need an expensive upgrade from what I have spec'd out. Instead of a cast crank, I would need a forged one and those add another $600, plus better rods, pistons, etc.

  17. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains
    my range I am figuring is idle to 5500 RPM, the Sim charts indicate TQ and HP drop rapidly after 6000.

  18. ntsqd

    ntsqd technerd

    Upper So. CA
    Those are not the heads, and it looks like the heads I had in mind have been dropped. Not finding them on the GMPerfParts page. What I had found is a aluminum replacement head for some year Corvette that had a 165cc intake port. With that small intake port volume they would've worked really nicely on a low rpm 350.

  19. norsk

    norsk SILVER Star

    5535.34 Feet in Utah Mountains
    good info.

    The Edelbrock is also a Dual Plane, a Vortec and a Spreadbore. Designed for idle to 5500 RPM range.

    That link is a square bore and I am wanting to do a good rebuilt QuadraJet. Have been researching that and found a great site at Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets :: Qjet Carburetor Rebuild Kits, Parts, Quadrajet Rebuilding, Quadrajet Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning

    I bought his book via Amazon which he wrote back in 2006. He has been building engines for 40 years. Owns a 1973 Pontiac Ventura, which has 650 HP 600 Ft-lbs and runs on his own tuned Q-Jet. It is his Daily Driver AND his racing vehicle. Fairly good mileage if he stays out of the secondaries due to his tuning. I have found that the Q-Jet is a great carb, BUT must tuned for the application in order to idle, off idle and WOT work right. I have learn ALOT about carbs from this book, talking with him and actually doing my rebuild with his HP-kit. One thing the Q-Jet does well is on off-road vehicles on angles, due to the design of the float, bowl, etc.

    I want to do the Carb thing at first and play with it.
  20. Elbert

    Elbert SILVER Star

    AL, USA
    yes I'm told the q-jet is the one to have if running carb off-road on GM-V8...I would do the same.

    Q-Jets are great carbs....espically for anything that's semi-mild build, I think they are the best for many mild street and off road applications...only when you really get into the hard-core hot rod or race stuff does a Holley really come into play. Getting hard to find local people who know how to work on those things now-days that everything is fuel injections. Q-jets are not hard to work on either.

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