S/C running ethanol questions . . . (1 Viewer)

Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Worland, WY
I'd wanted to make an introductory post before I really got active here. Unfortunately, I do most of my reading from my phone(which I hate doing) and I'm wondering if an image hosting site is necessary for the pics to show(vs a link) ? Which site is preferred ?

Anyhow, on to the topic. I have a '96 triple locked FZJ with close to 280k on it now. Bought it for 4 Gs w/ 238k on it and it's been solid(aside from being a no-turn-radius-havin', rusty, stinky jalopy) Been through a ton of maintenance, upgrades and repairs though, and now that I've been reading here, these issues were soooo typical(like HG and front main/oil pump cover leaks). Wish I'd joined before buying the 80, would have saved me some headache.

So I'm looking at just biting the 4+ G bullet and getting a supercharger from Summit Racing Equip(unless there's a preferred vendor I can get one from here). Deal is though, where I live sucks and it's almost impossible to get 91octane and even if it's available, I have serious doubts about its purity(based on the gas mileage I get when I run it vs the 10% ethanol that's widely available). I still track my mileage(pointless, I know) but from what I see, I get 14-16 in Wyoming where I currently work and 10-12 in Eastern SD where I live(nothing but corn fields and wind there). I've had a bad enough headwind on I-90 that I was getting under 7mpg at one point. Mileage isn't my primary concern though. Detonation is. It's said that ethanol raises octane. Will I be ok supercharging my 1fz-fe and running 10% ethanol ? I deleted the EGR and cats when I did the HG a few months ago. Now have Genie headers and a 50 series Flowmaster & 2 1/2 exhaust all the way back(big improvement).

Anyway, I'll be dropping another 6+ Gs into my LC aside from the S/C and wanted the additional power to turn the 35s I've got waiting. Hoping Slee calls and tells me my lift is gtg and ship soon. As it is, it'll still climb South Pass in WY at 70mph.

I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge and experience here. I've been active on other forums under the same name but this is my first 4wd forum, although I'm not new to the addiction Love my land cruiser.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
244
Location
Denver, CO
Afraid I have zero insight on petrol/ethanol with your SC, but:
I'm wondering if an image hosting site is necessary for the pics to show(vs a link) ? Which site is preferred ?
Is in the user guide: IH8MUD User Guide
Which, to be honest, I didn't even know exited until today so don't feel bad. :confused:
Woody said:
IMAGES and ATTACHMENTS
IH8MUD firmly believe that ALL uploaded files should be free to all to view and there are no limits to Guests. Additionally, we believe that externally hosted files are a terrible idea, since links often break or get changed. As a result, attachment space is UNLIMITED to all users. ALL! Please PLEASE do not link your images from Facebook, DropBox, Photopost, Imageshack or some other photo hosting location...there is nothing more frustrating than going back to an old thread from a few years back and finding those important photo links broken...STOP THE RED X's!! ;)
Put your images in a media album or attach them to the thread.
Albums | IH8MUD Forum
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
10,976
Location
Washington
Ethanol when mixed for normal pump use does not raise the octane above what is advertised. Ethanol does have a higher octane which just means when they add 10% ethanol the other 90% of the fuel can be lower octane to meet the advertised octane rating. For example:

Pure gas 91 octane is 100% 91 octane gas

10% Ethanol gas is:
10% Etanol at ~106 octane
90% gas at 89 octane
For a total octane rating of 91

You will get slightly worse gas mileage using 10% ethanol fuel, but everything else should be the same.
 

inkpot

SILVER Star
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
13,676
Location
All over Arizona
I run E-10 all the time in my rig. No choice. It is rated at 91 octane. I have my timing set at 3 - 5 degrees. I have not had any problem with detonation. It would appear that the two OEM original knock sensors on my engine are performing as designed. Have not ever heard what are the limits/restrictions of the ability of the knock sensors to protect/retard timing on the 1FZ engines. I have run 89 octane a few times when unable to find 91+ out in the boonies. I did not push engine real hard, but never heard any knock when I did that. I usually carry a couple of cans of octane booster with me, but I am not afraid of driving without it. I bought the rig in 2010 with the SC already installed, so I have no experience with a naturally aspirated 1Fz.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Worland, WY
It works great for forced induction gas setups as well. Since there is no intercooler with the Toyota SC'r it isn't a terrible idea.

Appreciate the reply man. Is this setup something I'd have to fab up ? Isn't water-injection something from the 60s to cool combustion temps ? ? I've seen a few intercooler setups here and was planning to replicate the WRX hood scoop one I saw, but with a 90° I/C vs a straight through so it'd have less ducting.

Didn't mean to be a d*ck earlier :)
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
10,976
Location
Washington
No worries, if you want to fab up an intercooler that is always the preferred method. A lot less to go wrong. :)

Appreciate the reply man. Is this setup something I'd have to fab up ? Isn't water-injection something from the 60s to cool combustion temps ? ? I've seen a few intercooler setups here and was planning to replicate the WRX hood scoop one I saw, but with a 90° I/C vs a straight through so it'd have less ducting.

Didn't mean to be a d*ck earlier :)
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Worland, WY
I run E-10 all the time in my rig. No choice. It is rated at 91 octane. I have my timing set at 3 - 5 degrees. I have not had any problem with detonation. It would appear that the two OEM original knock sensors on my engine are performing as designed. Have not ever heard what are the limits/restrictions of the ability of the knock sensors to protect/retard timing on the 1FZ engines. I have run 89 octane a few times when unable to find 91+ out in the boonies. I did not push engine real hard, but never heard any knock when I did that. I usually carry a couple of cans of octane booster with me, but I am not afraid of driving without it. I bought the rig in 2010 with the SC already installed, so I have no experience with a naturally aspirated 1Fz.

I run 85 octane out here in WY with my N/A fe and I haven't had knock issues. I also considered getting some octane booster just in case. Kind of have big plans for this thing but it is my DD, so any mod that I can't get finished in a couple weeks isn't going to happen right now. I've enjoyed driving the 80 for the last year and a half. I'm a Chevy guy but I've had like 5 Toyotas over the years :meh: and the current one is going to get out of hand. Nothing out of the ordinary though.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
8,566
If you put a turbo on instead you would get cooler intake temps and likely have less issue with detonation. CX racing sells a kit. Devils own does make pretty good quality meth injection kits for the money though if you want to go that route. If you live in the middle of nowhere it would be worth getting a 50 gallon drum of methanol.
 

landtank

Supporting Vendor
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
20,006
Location
Groveland MA
The stock ecu pulls so much timing once a SC is added it's ridiculous. I've worked around the problem and run 85 without any knocking.

Meth injection is a waste of money as far as I have seen
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Worland, WY
If you put a turbo on instead you would get cooler intake temps and likely have less issue with detonation. CX racing sells a kit. Devils own does make pretty good quality meth injection kits for the money though if you want to go that route. If you live in the middle of nowhere it would be worth getting a 50 gallon drum of methanol.

After checking into that real quick it looks to be quite a bit cheaper on top of being a more effecient power adder . . .and guys here say the lag isn't a big deal either. That may just be the way to go.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
8,566
After checking into that real quick it looks to be quite a bit cheaper on top of being a more effecient power adder . . .and guys here say the lag isn't a big deal either. That may just be the way to go.
Probably is. Once you get it running decent with the turbo I would probably slowly upgrade the systems components like the waste gate and blow off valve etc.
 

inkpot

SILVER Star
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
13,676
Location
All over Arizona
The stock ecu pulls so much timing once a SC is added it's ridiculous. I've worked around the problem and run 85 without any knocking.

Meth injection is a waste of money as far as I have seen

It DOES seem like the timing retards with boost, but I dont really understand why. Is it due to the high temperature of the boosted air in the intake?
 

landtank

Supporting Vendor
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
20,006
Location
Groveland MA
No. Its a safety routine programmed into the ECU. Theoretically the engine will never flow air at a volume that create a MAF voltage greater than 3.9v. So if the ECU sees a voltage higher than that it assumes there is a problem somewhere and goes into limp mode of running excessively rich and retards timing.

Once you bolt on a boost device you hit that point way down in the rpms.

Once I realized what was going on I started researching on the web and all the guys boosting NA supras during the same years were reporting the same thing.

I believe this is why piggy backs haven't been that successful.
 

cruiserdan

SupportingVendor Emeritus
Moderator
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
24,240
Location
Land Cruiser Heritage Museum broom closet
Methanol injection does benefit me, mine has had a blower on it for 17 years and ~125,000 miles.

Realistically at your accumulated mileage you should overhaul yours before doing any forced induction add. That cost plus the forced induction cost gets you well into V8 swap territory. If I had it to do over again I'd go V8 for sure. You also get the added V8 soundtrack, which is priceless.:)
 

inkpot

SILVER Star
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
13,676
Location
All over Arizona
No. Its a safety routine programmed into the ECU. Theoretically the engine will never flow air at a volume that create a MAF voltage greater than 3.9v. So if the ECU sees a voltage higher than that it assumes there is a problem somewhere and goes into limp mode of running excessively rich and retards timing.

Once you bolt on a boost device you hit that point way down in the rpms.

Once I realized what was going on I started researching on the web and all the guys boosting NA supras during the same years were reporting the same thing.

I believe this is why piggy backs haven't been that successful.

Oh yea, now I remember some discussion a long time ago about this. That would explain it. Maybe I can just snip the little green wire? :worms:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom