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Front Drive Shaft (AKA CV’s) reboot, Help!

Discussion in '100-Series Cruisers' started by 2001LC, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    Hey guys I’ve got a problem. I used a water based cleaning solvent someone gave me along with parts clean I purchase, to use after solvents' heavy cleaning. Well some of my matchmarks (axle and cage) washed off while cleaning parts. The parts just cleaned in petroleum based solvent still have matchmarks (tulip and race).

    So I can orient race same side out and line up with tulip, but cage & axle will probably not be lined up in original position.

    I think axle line up is no big deal, but cage may be. IMHO race to tulip line-up is the most import.

    What’s your thought’s (other than my stupidity ...):?

    What might happen from cage & and/or axle being out of originals position?

    Should I go ahead and install the boot kit and Front Drive Shaft on my rig, and see what happens.

    Or

    Should I just replace drive shaft now?


    001 (35).JPG 001 (30).JPG 001 (36).JPG 001 (40).JPG

    005.JPG
     
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  2. Malleus

    Malleus

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    It would be best to reseat the bearings in their original cups, since that's where they've been for (?)miles and they have (possibly) seated themselves there. However, if there is no wear visible to the naked eye, you can orient them in any way you like, and they will run. This is the way they were originally assembled. IMHO though, if there is visible wear, they should be replaced.

    IIRC, based on my various conversations with bearing manufacturers (of other bearings), the balls and races are hardened to the same limits, unlike most other assemblies which have a sacrificial component. This means that when one part wears, they're all wearing and the bearing continues to function as designed, albeit with diminished performance (load carrying capacity, speed, etc.).

    There is no magic to the spline orientation.
     
  3. bwell

    bwell SILVER Star

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    I think there is a massive amount of over emphasis placed on the subject on this forum. As stated above any visible or atypical wear would indicate need for replacement anyway. I'm sure you will be good to go.
     
  4. abuck99

    abuck99

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    Paul

    Not much you can do about it- reassemble and hope for the best. Worst case is you get a vibe and have to later swap it out- then you have a nice spare ready in case of emergency.

    Next time use a dremmel, and the small sanding drum and etch light match marks on non contact surfaces- then there's no worry about washing off and this will not affect strength or durability.

    You can match mark everything but the ball bearings-trying to get those back in the same spot is futile.
     
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  5. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    My balls are fine however there hung.. sorry couldn't help myself.

    I'm not sure about emphases here in mud on this, but FSM is specific. I've found FSM says what it means, and needs to be followed.

    I mark with permanent marker and center punch as back up on most stuff. But FSM stated "do not use punch" here, so I didn't. The permanent marker I use has never washed off before (petro based solvent), but I've never used this water based solvent before either.

    I like the dremel idea, I'll use it for other side, THX.

    At least I'll be able to get race & tulip set as was. The cage will be correct direction, with a 1 in six chance I'll nail it on orientation too race. The axle not sure it's balance from one side to the other so may not matter?

    I'll give CVJ a call and see if he balances or even things I need that. If so I'll just get it done before install.


    Any other thoughts or experiences?
     
  6. bucfl

    bucfl

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    When I cleaned and repacked mine I tried to mark but it got washed away. I put it all back together and I have not felt any shaking or anything out of the ordinary. The bearings had scratches on them but that should be normal since its metal on metal.

    I didn't see any deep scars or heat marks that I can recall. Not issues so far after some months.
     
  7. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    That's what I was hoping hear. That gives me the confidence to throw it together and give it a try. :clap:
     
  8. sean2202

    sean2202

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    I use this for marking splines and shafts checking alignments etc.

    Amazon.com: Woodys Track Marker TRAK-MARK: Automotive
    Does not come off easily. I keep at least 2 on hand because the tips sometimes get clogged.

    We all know when the angle is changed that vibration can occur but it does not sound like you are changing the angle of the CV joint.

    Keep us updated if any vibration occurs on re-assembly.

    What grease are you using for re-packing?
     
  9. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    Toyota boot kit comes with two packs (one inboard larger & one outboard smaller) of premeasure grease.

    I find it an incredible PITA cleaning the CV joint end that we don't take apart. I fill up the tulip/bearing with petroleum based solvent and let it stand for a while. Drain out solvent and blow out with water then air. I repeat this process again and again until no grease bits come out and solvent drains of clear.

    This takes forever to clean, anyone have a better way?
     
  10. abuck99

    abuck99

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    Don't think there's one majic process. With the axle on the bench and a tray underneath I used rags to wipe and scoop out as much matrial as possible- then brake cleaner to remove as much of the residual as possible. F'ng messy work. If the tulips weren't contaminated and your putting the same grease back in, I think it's less important to get it completely cleaned out- (to the point where there's no residual grease/film)
     
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  11. abuck99

    abuck99

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    I dont recall the outer tulips having a different surface treatment than the inner tulips. But I find the heat treating marks on your parts interesting. Mine seemed to have an anodized surface, no indication of heat treating (on the inside tulip). Is your inside tulip different?

    IMG_1654.JPG
     
  12. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    I'll get pictures later, but inboard tulip seem to be about the same as yours inside.

    I too found heat marks on outboard interest. I've not yet pulled PS will be interesting to see if that side also has heat marks. Both DS & PS had leaks, torn outer boots at small clamp. But very little slung grease in wheel well. It or they apparently got pretty hot, but they passed inspection by FSM standard and operate good. I assume caused from low grease in CV, but I got to in time to save driveshaft IMO. I've blue like that on my 01LC spindle, from loose bearings. Found that blue long ago, running without issue since, so this doesn't concern me.

    But I will clean until solvent runs clear on both sides, just to make sure it has the absolute best chance with new grease.

    Drive shaft boots  DS (1).JPG Drive shaft boots PS (2).JPG
     
  13. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    Thanks everyone for you input here.

    FWIW: I just spoke to Shawn over at CVJ in Denver. He said no big deal on these drive shafts, just put it together. So I'm sticking to plan and booting both side, then will see!

    I'll report back here with outcome.

    Thanks again everyone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  14. abuck99

    abuck99

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    How much grease left inside both leaking boots?

    I think those heat marks are from production, not usage, otherwise the boots would have melted if the tulip got that hot.

    Did you notice the difference in material composition between the inner and outer boot- outer: more plastic/polymer lime, inner more rubber like.
     
  15. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    Hard to say, not much grease lose by the looks of everything.

    Could be factory heat treat, I've not seen the inside of enough of these to have a good opinion on that. You didn't notice/see so makes me think not factory treatment.

    Old no, just dropped nasty's in trash after scooping grease in to my oil catch can. New small boot is thicker softer rubber, large is thinner and has stiffer feel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  16. Malleus

    Malleus

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    The discoloration you see in the original photos has one of two possible sources. One is the result of a localized heat treatment, as opposed to an overall heat treatment. Toyota may have specified either for the benefit of their suppliers; functionally they're equivalent. The other is that the bearings ran hot due to a lack of lubrication.

    I assumed that the cause was the former, since no mention was made of surface damage, which usually accompanies heat damage. Also, the discoloration is evident on the larger, outer, race, but not the smaller, inner, race. The smaller part should have sustained greater damage, due to the lack of mass. Taken together, I thought this was reasonable. If you were hearing/feeling something when you turned the wheel that indicates otherwise, it'd be wise to replace the shafts.
     
  17. bwell

    bwell SILVER Star

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    I may have had a similar thing happen before..... Just didn't put it out there for everyone, but I haven't had any issues either. :D
     
  18. nmatcek

    nmatcek

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    You should be fine. I paid no mind to the orientation in mine and haven't had any problems. Spins smooth with no vibrations.
     
  19. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    Used my Dremel clone, it worked great. THX

    I used Brake cleaner (4 cans) my first boot job yrs ago. It's concerned me as I'm in the "clean it spotless camp". That said I've not had a problem, some 90K miles on it. I've no doubt shop don't clean, just as with wheel bearings, it's too time consuming. They justify this claiming re-clacification, just as molybdenum grease will fill pits. But after mentioning using brake cleaner to and old friend (mechanic), he said I really need to use a de-greaser, which I've kept in shop even since, mostly for cleaning knuckles, axle bushing & bearings, axle hub & wheel bearings.

    I went ahead and cleaned both with de greasers (petro & water based), water and air. I did manage to get the process streamlined a bit with only 4 solvent soakings this time. The bearings, races, cages & cups are spotless!;)

    I really do spent a lot of time cleaning parts & inspecting the first time on every rig I work on, probably to much.

    I found exact same heat marks on PS outboard tulip, also I noticed blue on tip of axle at hub flange snap groove. So this must be localized heat treatment.
    010.JPG

    I sure like hearing these and the other testimonials. Along with PS marked up with Dremel to use as reference, I'm 90% confident I'll not have a problem, up from 50/50.
     
  20. 2001LC

    2001LC

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    So it was easy & rewarding assembling both front drive shaft last night with the OEM boot kits. 4 hour to clean and 40 minutes to assemble the pair. I started out reviewing disassembly pictures of the DS (pre washed off matchmarks) and found clues to axle matchmarks/alignment. So at that point I became pretty sure of axle's alignment. I then concentrated on cage and found some wear marks for it's alignment. It's probably doesn't matter (alignment being as it was for last 172K) as covered here, but makes me feel better non-the-less.

    After cleaning & greasing lips of both seals I installed both drive shafts. DS went in with a couple of good whacks with a log. PS was a bit stubborn. So after making sure snap ring pointed open end down and it was going in straight with teeth meshed. I snap it in using it's own in-and-out action of inboard slip tulip, on about tenth hard try:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::(:bang:;)

    Vise made easy work of filling outboard boot with grease.

    DS (22).JPG

    Took all my weight on crimpers to tighten outboard clamps, and they could still take more squeezing if needed. Those are for sure heavier than the factory clamps.
    DS (14).JPG
    DS (17).JPG

    They changed snap ring so it no longer has eyelets. Unfortunately my various snap ring tool attachments disappeared long ago. Made getting on a little more difficult for me. One went right on the other kept slipping off my tool (5 min extra).
    DS (16).JPG DS (18).JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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