Front Axle Rebuild (1 Viewer)

[94lc80series]

Noticed some sludge coming from the wheel nuts a few days ago. Thinking I have a bad inner axle seal.

Here's the writeup from a local shop:
"Your front diff fluid is contaminated with knuckle grease due to the bad inner axle seals and has turned into a nasty mud. It is going to require removing the center diff chunk from the housing to properly clean the contaminated grease from the housing. The basic knuckle rebuild includes new knuckle seals, gaskets, wipers, wheel bearings, knuckle bearings, wheel seals, and repack of existing birfields. With having to pull the diff from the housing and clean the contaminated grease/oil from the axle housing and axle tubes we will be starting at around $2,500 and depending on the condition of the rest of the components/hardware in there it will change from there."

Two questions:
1. Does the diff have to be removed to be properly cleaned?
2. Does this price sound reasonable?

I know everyone will want to say "DIY" it, but due to a medical condition, that's not an option for me. I certainly don't mind paying a fair price for work performed. But I have no reference point to know whether or not this is fair. Any help or suggestions are welcome.

 

[mct75]

I'm sure there are many opinions, but grease in the differential is not the end of the world. Certainly not to the point of having to take everything apart to clean it. If anything I would get the axle rebuilt sans "cleaning" and then get the fluid changed in 6 months to wash out what ever residual grease is in the gear oil still.

 

[DirtScaresMe]

Everyone who's overpacked their knuckles with grease (and then it's gotten into the dif) would be a candidate for this work by that definition. If you have an axle leak then you need to get that fixed, but that's usually going to show as dif fluid going into the knuckles. Grease in the dif (from my very limited experience) is overpacked knuckles.

If the seals are okay and the knuckles are greased, just drain the dif, add gear oil, and go about your business. It's not perfect but $2.5K is a steep price because there's too much of one type of lubricant mixed in with another type of lubricant.

I'd much rather drain the dif, refil with gear oil, and then do it again in a few weeks. If everything is cool, you can pocket the remaining $2,450.00 and call yourself a pro mechanic.

 

[tacosupreme]

If you can't do it yourself, find some members local to you to lend a hand. For that same $2500 you could do new axles, wheel bearings, and replace every seal in it. It's less than 8 hours of labor if you've done one or two before.

 

[AndrewInf]

I think I'm in the same boat as you, have noticed some weeping coming out of the outboard grease cap on the driver side, and have noticed a little oil dripping down the inner sidewall of the tires when parked.

I am planning to just try to replace the necessary seals and see how things go, I know the front axle was redone within the last 30k miles or so by the PO 7-8 years ago. A full front axle rebuild is definitely not in my budget right now

 

[ZackR]

I haven't done mine before but I would skip pulling the housing to clean it out. My driver side is leaking and has contaminated my gear oil but doesn't make any noise since I keep the gear oil and moly lube topped up.

See if a local cruiser guy/girl would be interested in doing the work for $1000 or less plus parts. There are people out there who enjoy doing this kind of work and getting paid would be icing on the cake for them.

 

[94lc80series]

Everyone who's overpacked their knuckles with grease (and then it's gotten into the dif) would be a candidate for this work by that definition. If you have an axle leak then you need to get that fixed, but that's usually going to show as dif fluid going into the knuckles. Grease in the dif (from my very limited experience) is overpacked knuckles.

If the seals are okay and the knuckles are greased, just drain the dif, add gear oil, and go about your business. It's not perfect but $2.5K is a steep price because there's too much of one type of lubricant mixed in with another type of lubricant.

I'd much rather drain the dif, refil with gear oil, and then do it again in a few weeks. If everything is cool, you can pocket the remaining $2,450.00 and call yourself a pro mechanic.

I'm fairly convinced that the seals are not OK, that there is a leak in the inner seal, which is allowing grease to flow from the wheel nuts. But I could be wrong...

 

[cbpeck]

If you can't do it yourself, then find a shop that will do a basic knuckle service for about $1k, including draining and refilling the gear oil in the diff. I'm with everyone else, you can always drain and refill the diff again in a few weeks or months to further dilute any residual grease. The drain and fill should cost less than $100. $2500 is completely unnecessary, IMO.

 

[ajax1]

If you are in western colo I'd do it for ya for cheap

 

[nukegoat]

I voted "yes" on the poll question. A fair price is based on supply and demand. If they have enough business that they only find it economically viable to do it at that rate, then that's fair. I do all kinds of stuff myself but not to save money - it's purely for fun. I do pay people to come and fix my fence, paint my house, etc. I just don't enjoy those things. Anyway, if you don't want to pay, you can take your business elsewhere. Anecdotally, it seems a bit steep to me so I'd call around a few places but if you can afford it, I'm sure they'd do the job right.

Last suggestion - try negotiating with them. Find some typical prices and just ask if they'd be willing to entertain for (insert price here). Worst they can say is "no"

 

[DirtScaresMe]

I'm fairly convinced that the seals are not OK, that there is a leak in the inner seal, which is allowing grease to flow from the wheel nuts. But I could be wrong...

I guess what I'm saying is that grease don't really "flow" past the seals unless you overpack the knuckle. Otherwise it just sits there being grease. The dif fluid on the other hand is sitting directly against the seals and as soon as a seal fails will start dumping into the knuckle creating the "birf soup".

I just don't see how the knuckle, not overpacked, would push grease anywhere. There's no positive pressure in there, again, unless overpacked.

 

[Bill F]

I was quoted $3500 for a similar repair (SF Peninsula), and had another shop (North Bay) do it for FAR less than that. Seems like you are getting a 'full retail' quote, fwiw.

 

[cbpeck]

Last I checked, TorFab - a Cruiser Specialist north of Seattle - charged about $1k for a front axle service. That may have been just labor, but the parts and supplies aren't that expensive. I think that's a fair going rate, given that it takes about 8 hours.

 

[Golgo13]

Sounds like too much. you don't really need to clean that grease out. run it and have the gear oil drained and refilled a couple times and it will dilute enough to not be a problem anymore. Going rate in Ann Arbor is ~$100/hr, that would be 25 hours to do the work and it definitely shouldn't take that long if done by a decent mechanic.

 

[BILT4ME]

I guess what I'm saying is that grease don't really "flow" past the seals unless you overpack the knuckle. Otherwise it just sits there being grease. The dif fluid on the other hand is sitting directly against the seals and as soon as a seal fails will start dumping into the knuckle creating the "birf soup".

I just don't see how the knuckle, not overpacked, would push grease anywhere. There's no positive pressure in there, again, unless overpacked.

In the case of these axles, the grease "don't just sit there"......

1) The axle vent is MOST likely clogged. This needs to be cleaned from the fitting and hole in the axle tube all the way to the extended differential breather filter (because you're going to add this at the same time.) 72" of 1/4" fuel hose, (4) hose clamps, and a 1/4" Wix fuel filter. Pull the fitting off the housing, clean it, clean the hole, then reinstall and put on the hose, route it up over the brake booster and call it good.

If the vent is not clear, a long drive will heat up the differential, thus causing pressure from heat. The internal pressure will push the gear oil out to the birfields because they have the weakest seal on the ball. As the axle cools, it sucks the grease/oil mixture back into the axle housing, thus, contaminating the gear oil. Lather rinse, repeat, and now the level in the axle is too high, and will clog the differential vent hose and breather, making it worse. I Know this, because mine did it right after a complete rebuild, but I didn't do the vent. I cleaned the vent and the problem went away.

2) $2500 is way too much for what they are describing. Should be in the $1000 range assuming your do NOT need new axles (Birfields).

 

[ReformedJeeper]

I'll do it for $2400. On a serious note a good independent shop should be able to do a front axle rebuild (even if u have to pull the third) for around $1000- $1500 (at least in socal). I called 3 places before deciding to do it myself because the parts are only about 250 even if u include new bearings. Also, I'm glad I did, since then I've regeared, broke a ring and pinion, and rebuilt my 1st gen 4runner axle. The first time is hard, it gets easier after that.

 

[94lc80series]

In the case of these axles, the grease "don't just sit there"......

1) The axle vent is MOST likely clogged. This needs to be cleaned from the fitting and hole in the axle tube all the way to the extended differential breather filter (because you're going to add this at the same time.) 72" of 1/4" fuel hose, (4) hose clamps, and a 1/4" Wix fuel filter. Pull the fitting off the housing, clean it, clean the hole, then reinstall and put on the hose, route it up over the brake booster and call it good.

If the vent is not clear, a long drive will heat up the differential, thus causing pressure from heat. The internal pressure will push the gear oil out to the birfields because they have the weakest seal on the ball. As the axle cools, it sucks the grease/oil mixture back into the axle housing, thus, contaminating the gear oil. Lather rinse, repeat, and now the level in the axle is too high, and will clog the differential vent hose and breather, making it worse. I Know this, because mine did it right after a complete rebuild, but I didn't do the vent. I cleaned the vent and the problem went away.

2) $2500 is way too much for what they are describing. Should be in the $1000 range assuming your do NOT need new axles (Birfields).

I want to be be sure I'm following you. Are you saying that you think the whole issue of grease coming out of the wheel is only due to a clogged diff vent? And that the answer is to simply unclog it/add breather filter?

 

[Notch]

That seems like a lot. I get $70/hr and it takes me about 10hrs to do an 80 front axle with brakes...$1000 labor

 

[BILT4ME]

I want to be be sure I'm following you. Are you saying that you think the whole issue of grease coming out of the wheel is only due to a clogged diff vent? And that the answer is to simply unclog it/add breather filter?

Yes, I'm saying that it CAN be the case.

Mine did it right after a rebuild and I did not do the vent.

I changed the fluids and did the vent and have not had the issue in 30K miles. It happened in the first 15K after the rebuild.

How long has it been since your front axle was rebuilt? Did YOU do it or someone else? I do all my own work for a reason. This way I know EVERYTHING about it and if a mistake was made, I know WHO did it and why and I will make the changes to fix it for next time.

There is a recent thread that I pointed out the event issue and one of the Mud Members pulled his apart and discovered that this fitting was indeed clogged as I had described. I had to use a pick to get the crud out of my fitting and hole in the axle because it was so hard.

 

[Rifleman]

If i still had my shop, I'd save you a 1000 bucks, and do that whole job including factory parts for 1500 dollars. That job would break down to about $500* bucks in factory Toyota parts, gaskets, bearings, seals, gear lube, moly grease, and 1000 in labor. So to answer your question, that shop charging you 2500 dollars to do this job in my opinion is TO MUCH. * Note: if your CV joints were bad, and needed to be replaced then the cost for parts would be more then the $500 i quoted.