Build 1985 FJ60 Gets a Holley Sniper EFI Setup

[Dustin Messina]

Truck rolled that 140k mark today! Still breaking it in....

 

[Dustin Messina]

So there’s a good bit to update... I’ll try and keep it short.

@FJ60Cam sent me his throttle cable package which has everything I needed to ditch the rod linkage and move to the throttle cable. @wngrog has installed a few of these so I took a ride and had him help me install the setup.

Overall the setup is straight forward. From the inside you make a mark on your firewall behind where you hand throttle would go. remove the pedal and drill a hole. Then run your throttle cable housing from the outside in, tighten down the nut and then run cable through housing, set the plastic piece in the pedal with throttle cable, adjust the outside, cut to fit, hook to sniper and there you go. A few things I ran across. My 60 has a factory heat shield on the back side of the brake booster that Nolen's did not. I had to bend this down out of the way to get clearance for my cable. Your hole is basically in line with the bottom bolt of the brake booster. I needed to be about a 1/4" more to the right on mine, but we made it work. Also, I went ahead and drilled a hole in my pedal while it was out because I am going to try and make a hand throttle work.


Fast forwarded... install done go to check TPS..... max out at 52% just like my rod linkage....

This is where I fully disclose I am not a mechanic, but have enough tools to get in trouble and started out on this Sniper journey years ago blind piecing parts together. Now Cam sells everything you need.

Nolen and I started looking at the issue, pull air cleaner and find out that my sniper blades have been hitting my Downey adapter this entire time... I start ripping everything out, Nolen sources me some new gaskets, we flip the adapter around ( no markings what so every on this old adapter) and boom we have clearance. Check TPS and I max out around 70%, Nolen makes a few adjustments, gets me to 80% or so.... I found my pedal is hitting the limiter bolt on the floor. Tighten it down so the pedal goes all the way down and it gets me to right at 98% TPS now.

A few take aways.

1) I will not know if I could obtain 100% TPS on my rod linkage setup because it was running hindered this entire time.
2) This truck has more power than it ever has because now it has 100% throttle. ( I bought this truck running with carb issues ditched carb the week I bought it. I had zero seat time in it before Sniper install)
3) I have a few bugs to work out. My sniper is sticking when you move through the blade slowly or lightly press on pedal. It will hang up around 2k RPM with no pressure on pedal. I added a return spring setup, but the one I have is too strong and makes the pedal way to stiff. (I have several springs on the way to try and find the right tension). There is an initial break feeling when I hit the gas from a dead close that I dont like and I think it may have something to do with my blades sticking. I dont like it and going to email Holley an see, however, my thoughts are all this time with the blades hitting the adapter plate that they could have bent slightly or something. Time will tell.
4) I am going to work through throttle cable now its done and dial it in. Truck feels like a race care now or as much as an fj60 can.

 

[Dustin Messina]

For a while Ive had an issue of losing power randomly over 2k RPMS. It was so random and would never last that I wasnt really able to figure it out. Feels like fuel delivery issues, but my pump, filter and everything are clean and working as they should. It hasnt been an issue really, however, when we were in the Ozarks on Saturday it decided to show up and hang out on Saturday. I was blowing black smoke like a diesel and couldnt run over 2k rpms. This sucks when your on the top of a mountain. I was also burning through fuel like crazy. 8 mpg, which sucks even more than normal. That night @wngrog and I played with my IAC settings, took the Sniper out of learn mode to eliminate the O2, (all of my settings looked normal). Truck ran about the same either way we set it up. We peal out Sunday morning truck is running fine. I am doing 75 keeping up with the caravan for about 4 hours and then boom I start running like crap. So, bad that we have to pull over. I rip out my o2 sensor and it is smoked. I put a new o2 in go a few 100 yards and my o2 sensor pegs out, truck running like crap, black smoke everywhere. We limp to an Orlieys. @wngrog had another o2 in his rig ( i ran through my spare), I throw it in. @USMC22 wants to look at my plugs and pulls one. It is crispy fried. So, we buy a set of plugs, new o2 and get me rolling all the way back home with no issues. Gas mileage still sucked more than normall, but I got home.

Big shout out to @WharfRat for the use of his crescent wrench. He has been waiting patiently for the day someone needed to borrow it! Def made short work of the o2.....

 

[Dustin Messina]

continued......

Start diagnosing the issue the next day and its def unburnt fuel causing my issue. I am on the phone with my pops running the symptoms down with him and he feels pretty confident that it is something to do with my DUI not advancing my timing correctly. Forgot to mention above the issue comes under load, when I was having issues I could press clutch and run the truck up to 4k rpms no issues but the moment I put a load on it it would try and die. After some discussion he doesnt like my vacuum line setup. I t'ed into my vac line going to my advance to run my charcoal canister. he told me to cut that out and see what it does. When I checked vacuum the non-ported side it was screaming plenty of suction, but when I check the ported vacuum side it is weaker for sure even as your increase the throttle. So, I get to rerouting vac lines. Trucks been running much better since with zero issues. When Nolen and I were working on the throttle cable I took a peek at his setup because he is running a t'd vacuum line with no issues. However, he is pulling vacuum off the Sniper on the non ported side (small left vac line on sniper). I also ditched the ngk plugs I had and installed a new set of Denso OEM plugs gapped at .50 for the DUI. As of now truck is running great, no issues (havent checked gas mileage yet). Truck also use to diesel randomly as well and that has gone away completely. I think venting the canister into the non ported side of the sniper use to cause this.




Old vac line setup: ported vacuum (right small port on sniper from front) to my distributor with a t going to my delco purge canister. The none ported vacuum on the Sniper I used to dump the charcoal canister into. (the factory hard line from original canister setup on drivers side fender).

New Vac Line Setup: dedicated vacuum line from small left port on Snipper to my advance on the DUI, dedicated vac line from ported side of sniper (right) to my Delco purge valve on my canister, one vac line coming from original hard line on drivers side for canister to my intake port. (the threaded valve on the intake with 3 vac ports on it. two are capped and one is pulling canister fumes now).

Ill try and get pictures up for everything later.

 

[MoaByte]

Interesting. I'm sorry you had so much grief to deal with. I'm thinking of converting from rod linkage to cable but was thinking to drill through the arm outside the firewall next to where the rod attaches.
I've noticed my Sniper is a bit moody, worse than a carb in some ways. On cold mornings the LCD boots up to "change layout" and refuses for several attempts to go to the layout I have chosen. Some days it wants to stall, some days it's perfect so long as I stay below 43% TPS. I have the ported vac to HEI but Charcoal canister Teed into PCV and purged to the weak vac on top of the air cleaner. I have a flicker in the vac (and lower compression on #5) that may be causing some of my grief.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Interesting. I'm sorry you had so much grief to deal with. I'm thinking of converting from rod linkage to cable but was thinking to drill through the arm outside the firewall next to where the rod attaches.
I've noticed my Sniper is a bit moody, worse than a carb in some ways. On cold mornings the LCD boots up to "change layout" and refuses for several attempts to go to the layout I have chosen. Some days it wants to stall, some days it's perfect so long as I stay below 43% TPS. I have the ported vac to HEI but Charcoal canister Teed into PCV and purged to the weak vac on top of the air cleaner. I have a flicker in the vac (and lower compression on #5) that may be causing some of my grief.

I dont have any of those other issues with my system. Honestly I take all of these issues and will work through them than trying to run a carb with al that crap under the good. All of mine started when I installed the DUI. It ran perfect with the recurved OEM dizzy, however, I think some of this is just user error and my lack of knowledge. As of now this thing is running exceptional now. However, I only have about 100 miles on it. As soon as I work through this tight pedal issue due to my spring tension I think this thing will be solid. I have been driving it almost every day,

 

[Seth S]

I dont have any of those other issues with my system. Honestly I take all of these issues and will work through them than trying to run a carb with al that crap under the good. All of mine started when I installed the DUI. It ran perfect with the recurved OEM dizzy, however, I think some of this is just user error and my lack of knowledge. As of now this thing is running exceptional now. However, I only have about 100 miles on it. As soon as I work through this tight pedal issue due to my spring tension I think this thing will be solid. I have been driving it almost every day,

Black smoke as you probably realize by now is due to overly rich condition. O2 sensors going bad can cause rich condition, vacuum leaks and manifold leaks can cause rich condition...basically the O2 sees the extra air and thinks you are lean so it drives the injectors to rich and problem. The Sniper has all the sensors except for the O2 built into it...so TPS, Temp, MAP, etc. Could be a faulty sensor in the unit, could be a bad ground or dirty power issue. Aside from the O2 going bad I have seen temperature sensors cause all kinds of havoc as can the MAP/MAF (I assume sniper is MAP).

While it could be ignition I'd be surprised if that were the case but I'm curious to learn what you find.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Black smoke as you probably realize by now is due to overly rich condition. O2 sensors going bad can cause rich condition, vacuum leaks and manifold leaks can cause rich condition...basically the O2 sees the extra air and thinks you are lean so it drives the injectors to rich and problem. The Sniper has all the sensors except for the O2 built into it...so TPS, Temp, MAP, etc. Could be a faulty sensor in the unit, could be a bad ground or dirty power issue. Aside from the O2 going bad I have seen temperature sensors cause all kinds of havoc as can the MAP/MAF (I assume sniper is MAP).

While it could be ignition I'd be surprised if that were the case but I'm curious to learn what you find.

Sniper is a MAP i believe. Oh, no doubt I was running rich... looked like a chimney. The reason I am looking at the DUI system is the issue is only under load. When it is having issue and I hit the clutch the truck instantly runs fine, but as soon as it went back under load the issue is there. Its like the distributor was not advancing timing at all. Plan to keep post updated.

 

[Seth S]

Sniper is a MAP i believe. Oh, no doubt I was running rich... looked like a chimney. The reason I am looking at the DUI system is the issue is only under load. When it is having issue and I hit the clutch the truck instantly runs fine, but as soon as it went back under load the issue is there. Its like the distributor was not advancing timing at all. Plan to keep post updated.

I drove my 60 home 2000 miles from Colorado with the carb and no advanced hooked up and no richness issues....now of course that's a carb and not a sniper. But my gut (and could be 100% wrong) is that you have a sensor problem (whether bad sensor, bad ground, or leak in gasket etc.) in the sniper that's triggering rich issue off idle. Maybe I missed it above...but is your sniper communicating with the distributor?

And as a reference point: we did a rally a few years ago in a highly modified 16 valve turbo charged Saab and on the first day of the event every time the car came off idle it bogged like crazy and not until the revs got up to like 4000 rpm did it clear out and run ok. We tried all kinds of stuff that day and in the end we figured out it was a bad intake air temperature sensor....we were running water injection and the water was sprayed before that sensor in the intercooler pipe. the sensor was getting wet and registering a false reading and the computer was thinking it was a cold engine and going crazy rich.

 

[Seth S]

Have you tried disconnecting and plugging the advance on the distributor and then driving the truck? a quick way to rule out an over advance issue.


And I'm couch diagnosing here so please don't take my input as "you are doing it wrong." writing ideas and trying to help on the internet doesn't always come across as intended. Always feel free to ignore

 

[MoaByte]

Have you tried disconnecting and plugging the advance on the distributor and then driving the truck? a quick way to rule out an over advance issue.


And I'm couch diagnosing here so please don't take my input as "you are doing it wrong." writing ideas and trying to help on the internet doesn't always come across as intended. Always feel free to ignore

I was think over advancing too. At load with both vac and centrifugal advance is a whole lotta advance.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Have you tried disconnecting and plugging the advance on the distributor and then driving the truck? a quick way to rule out an over advance issue.


And I'm couch diagnosing here so please don't take my input as "you are doing it wrong." writing ideas and trying to help on the internet doesn't always come across as intended. Always feel free to ignore

I have not plugged the advance on the distributor. The Sniper is not communicating with the distributor at all. I may try that is if started acting up, but I do not disagree with you that it could be a sensor issue. Please keep couch diagnosing it all helps!!!

 

[Seth S]

Can you see the data logs for each sensor on the lcd panel when the truck goes to super rich condition? If you can look at sensor readings one at a time and watch the numbers when the problem occurs you might be able to see the offender. Though this can be tricky because one bad sensor might make the others look funny too.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Can you see the data logs for each sensor on the lcd panel when the truck goes to super rich condition? If you can look at sensor readings one at a time and watch the numbers when the problem occurs you might be able to see the offender. Though this can be tricky because one bad sensor might make the others look funny too.

Thats another reason why I went to distributor because I keep the monitor on "gauge" setting that watches all sensors and none of them read bad or through any signs of issues. The Sniper will actually highlight the reading in yellow or red if there are issues. All of my readings were fine doing the issue.

 

[Seth S]

Hmmm. Your O2 sensor should have been reading red. That’s sort of like your canary....though by the time it dies everyone else is dead too .

 

[Dustin Messina]

Hmmm. Your O2 sensor should have been reading red. That’s sort of like your canary....though by the time it dies everyone else is dead too .

It only ran red once when I installed an aftermarket O2 replacement. However, my duty cycle ran fine during all the issues. AFR looked normal, MAP readings looked normal.

 

[Seth S]

A vacuum leak, a bad ground wire or point, corrosion in a connector, a bad O2 sensor. Things that come to mind for rich condition.

or

compression problem ...something mechanical ?

 

[Dustin Messina]

A vacuum leak, a bad ground wire or point, corrosion in a connector, a bad O2 sensor. Things that come to mind for rich condition.

or

compression problem ...something mechanical ?

Here is the read out of my sensors when I was having issues. No compression problems, I changed all vac lines as that could have been an issues. Running new O2 now, new plugs, I need to check rotor I guess but right it’s runnings good.

 

[Seth S]

Not knowing all he details those numbers seem logical.

****Edit**** I had the A/F ratio backwards. Just deleted because the 13.3 is showing its richer than the magic 14.7.

- How does the Sniper come up with the timing advance? is that arbitrary in this case? or is it showing what the advance should be based on its calcs and tach input?

 

[Seth S]

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