H41/Orion combo...

[Poser]

chattfj40 asked me to build this combo for him, so now that all of the goodies are here, I have shot some pictures of the parts and will document the assembly out here....



H41

[Poser]

Orion #339

[Ian Rogers]

wow that one of the cleanest h41 i has seen

[scouthead]

Drooool...

[camcruiser13]

uhhh




speechless

[timbercruiser]

Double drool!!!

someday.....

[bull]

goodness..going to be some low!

[Poser]

Originally Posted by bull

goodness..going to be some low!

ASSuming 4:11 diff...


81.38:1


It should work really well for him.

[Poser]

Some pieces that I install when building these that do not come with the Orion:


New 04/75 and later main shaft and new range selector shift collar by the new Orion high speed gear.


The 01/78-07/80 fine spline front output shaft along with a parking brake housing modified for two seals.

[Poser]

Just some other pieces...


The old Orion high speed gear(not back cut or modified) next to a new one, along with the stepped thrust washers, and the other modified pieces that AA supplies with the Orion kits:

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Ian Rogers

wow that one of the cleanest h41 i has seen

Some may complain about the prices that Marv gets for his parts, but I have now received four of these H41's(three early 16 spline versions, and one 19 spline later modle) and all of them have been clean and work well, I cannot see why this one would be any different.

[bull]

Is there any outside indentification that tells you it is a H41?

[Poser]

Originally Posted by bull

Is there any outside indentification that tells you it is a H41?

Not that I have ever been able to find. They are a smooth case, just like the H42, and according to info Jim C. posted out here the other day, they only made one housing, so that the H42 and H41 gear set can interchange into the housing without requiring a special case.

[Fast Eddy]

Originally Posted by bull

Is there any outside indentification that tells you it is a H41?

Put it in 1st, turn the input and count the output; hope for almost 5:1. An h42 is 3.5:1.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddy

Put it in 1st, turn the input and count the output; hope for almost 5:1. An h42 is 3.5:1.

This has been asked many times....and your suggestion will work great, provided the trans is on a bench....in a vehicle it can be far more difficult, especially if it does not run....hence the question pertaining to any exterior defining features....

[peesalot]

they send the orions painted and with all that now.

[rick_d]

actually it's pretty obvious that the tranny is a H41.

Look at the 1st gear in photo #1. It almost reaches the top of the casting- thence a H41.

H42's first gear sit 3/4" or more below the top of the tranny casting.

[yotanut]

Originally Posted by rick_d

actually it's pretty obvious that the tranny is a H41.

Look at the 1st gear in photo #1. It almost reaches the top of the casting- thence a H41.

H42's first gear sit 3/4" or more below the top of the tranny casting.

But I think the question was from the outside the case.

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

"CruiserMax" has the H41 and Orion in his SOA FJ40 with 4.88s - I think his crawl ratio is close to 90:1?

Except for the Orion popping out of gear when compression braking on hills, he is pretty happy with it.

Regards,

Alan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Poser

ASSuming 4:11 diff...


81.38:1


It should work really well for him.

[Poser]

Which really is a dead issue Alan.



Max must not have installed any of the pieces supplied by Advance Adapters (which I am pretty sure the pieces have been available for over a year now) that have been discussed to great length out here which would remedy his transfer case. I am not aware of anyone that has gone through the process of installing the back-cut high speed gear, stepped thrust washers, and shift rail components that is continuing to have this issue. Further, there are people, myself included, that have assembled the Orion WITHOUT the update pieces listed above, and they are not popping out of gear.



Max has all of this information and the parts available to him, just like anyone else that has purchased one of these. It would be in his best interest to install these pieces, along with a new main shaft and shift collar, and be done with this.

[chattfj40]

actually I've got 4.88s so that'd be 96.63:1

For those that are interested in my reasonings for this swap its pretty simple. Last couple years I've done alot to the cruiser...see my sig, and the stock drivetrain just isn't low enough with 38.5 Sxs...my clutch or lack thereof proves this

So, to go lower I had several options, but by far the simplest is the H41/Orion since its basically a bolt in setup without the associated driveline changes of the SM420/465/toybox/etc. The toybox was an option but, I have no interest in moving the gas tank (its an 80) so that was out.

So this will drop right in and if all goes to plan, I shouldn't have to make and driveline changes.

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Steve, you are correct - it is a "dead" issue; I was referring to the deep gearing more than anything, but did not feel I could write that he was "happy" with the Orion without mentioning the pop out of gear issues.

Max has not dealt with the Orion in his FJ40 yet, but it is because of other "issues" interferring with his time.

I look forward to hopefully someday being able to afford the $$ for the Orion swap! All of us Land Cruiser owners are indebited to folks like you, "Treeroot," etc. who have researched the issues with the first run of Orions and helped AA resolve those issues.

Regards,

Alan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Poser

Which really is a dead issue Alan.



Max must not have installed any of the pieces supplied by Advance Adapters (which I am pretty sure the pieces have been available for over a year now) that have been discussed to great length out here which would remedy his transfer case. I am not aware of anyone that has gone through the process of installing the back-cut high speed gear, stepped thrust washers, and shift rail components that is continuing to have this issue. Further, there are people, myself included, that have assembled the Orion WITHOUT the update pieces listed above, and they are not popping out of gear.



Max has all of this information and the parts available to him, just like anyone else that has purchased one of these. It would be in his best interest to install these pieces, along with a new main shaft and shift collar, and be done with this.

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by Poser

. Further, there are people, myself included, that have assembled the Orion WITHOUT the update pieces listed above, and they are not popping out of gear.

I'd be one of those. Assembled one of the earlier Orions (#38) with NO parts in less than new condition and have not had a single problem with it.


Mark...

[honk]

Originally Posted by Mark W

I'd be one of those. Assembled one of the earlier Orions (#38) with NO parts in less than new condition and have not had a single problem with it.
Mark...

Which facts lead to my wondering whether there ever was an issue with the Orion which was not the result of either operator error or 'economical' assembly.

Although I decided not to buy one when they came out because it seemed that there were bugs that needed solving I now think that it'd been OK to go with it so long as new shift collar, fork, and detent rod were put in.

Would I be far wrong in saying that the Orion was a good product when introduced, and a better one today? I'm kicking myself some for being hesitant to buy one at the outset

as it is I have an H41 (which came from SOR looking just like the one pictured here) and the 3 speed transfer case gearing for something like 52:1 overall.

It's somewhat gratifying to see that it's now accepted that the case of the H41 and H42 are the same. I'd posted that I thought so long ago and was firmly instructed otherwise by various so-called "gurus". Neener-neener.

(For those wondering if you might have an H41 already: The H41 is designated on some vehicle data plates. I got one in my '77 BJ40 which is direct from Japan. That's not to say that all BJ series trucks got it - I think the NA market diesels have the H42 in most cases, as do the NA (North America) gassers, FJ series. It's a foriegn goodie)

[Poser]

New main shafts do not come with the needle bearing assembly so this needed to be installed. Cleaned off the anti-rust coating that comes on the new shaft with lacquer thinner, wiped it down and installed the bearing with the use of the press. The socket was used as a driver since it slipped into the bearing bore without touching and seated on the roller bearing well without touching the inner rollers.

[Poser]

Next three are of the main shaft and high speed gear. First one is the assembly lube that AA sends with the kit and how I use it.

The next two are of the high speed gear on the shaft with the stepped thrust washer.

When assembling these, you can usually drop the washer on and feel the amount of free play there is on the shaft between the thrust washer, gear, and drive section of the main shaft. The deep side of the thrust washer is cut to .015-.017” and the thin side is between .008” and .010”. The deep side of the thrust washer was not going to be used as it left no free play at all, and the thin side felt tight without the bearing pressed on, but I decided to give it a try and see where we were.